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Post by sheyd on Jun 10, 2008 13:09:14 GMT -5
Ok, if you say so! ;D I never said I was permissive, but if she doesn't learn to do it for herself, where will she be at when she leaves home? Peace isn't the goal, here, the goal is helping her prepare for her life AFTER home. It may be quieter and easier and she may even get better grades if I monitor her and ride her, but the lessons that would be teaching are the wrong ones. It isn't about MY comfort, it is about what I need to do for HER. Jules is right - at 12 she should not NEED to be ridden anymore. She does, still, a bit, but then the goal is still getting her to that more independent point. I WON'T be one of those parents I see hovering over the kid who can't do anything without mommy/daddy checking it out first at college. Nor will I be the one whose kid goes nuts at 18 and can't stay sober for more than a day because they are finally out from under a thumb (at least that is the goal...) She wants out from under the thumb already - which I consider a good sign, she will be that independent thinker you say we need more of. Now she just has to EARN it - by proving responsibility.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 10, 2008 13:17:07 GMT -5
But setting down strict guidlines is the only way to teach them that responsibility. Holding them responsible for their failures and actions. And no offense but yes you are. You are a way easy going person who would like to discuss everything rather than fight There still needs to be monitoring. There needs to be contact with the teachers and your daughter about what is expected and what the consequences are (and there needs to be FIRM ones) No you shouldn't have to hover over them when they are in college, however if you never push them in the first place......... And yes I grew up under a unreasonably strict parent and I do know what can happen with that. But I see worse what happens to kids who are allowed to "make their own decisions" at too young of an age. There is a way and a balance but first you have to un-barbarize them. Then we can allow them bit by bit to stretch their wings and use that forward thinking
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Post by sheyd on Jun 10, 2008 14:23:37 GMT -5
She is at the age when it is time to stretch those wings, though, at (almost) 12. She DOES know what is expected, and what the consequences are... Her first quarter she got 6 as, a b+, a b-, a c+ and a c. Her overall gpa still landed her on the honor roll, but she knew she was grounded when she went below a b. Her second quarter (the duration of which she was grounded) she got 8 as and 2 b+s. Her third quarter she got 9 as and one b+. The last semester it was 8 as, one b+ and one b. She is in the most advanced classes the school offers, even after skipping a grade, AND has managed to be in three plays this year. I wouldn't exactly say this is a child who is having trouble with all her freedom? Unless you count her being mad at me when I DO clamp down (but again, I WANT her to be independent - and she thought that as long as she got the grades - and in that class it was a b+ - I should be happy about it). She has her own ideas of what is important, but she also has to follow my rules, so I accept her being mad - I wouldn't want to squash that. The rude talk wasn't appreciated, but that is why she has the essay assignments! ;D I don't see that as permissive, but I also don't think she should have her assignment list checked every day. She may have "failed" in her responsibilities the first semester -but those are the lessons you need to learn to figure it out!
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 10, 2008 14:49:39 GMT -5
11 is way too young. That is still a time when you need to guide them closer, especially when they are hitting puberty.
It is great that she is so involved with stuff, but some of that should quit if she keeps failing in her responsibilities.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 10, 2008 14:51:59 GMT -5
And frankly at that age, they don't have the option of disagreeing with the things that need to be done.
What does grounding entail?
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Post by sheyd on Jun 10, 2008 15:29:20 GMT -5
For that time it was no computer (except for schoolwork) no tv and no friends over or her going there. It was a long quarter for all of us . I disagree about 11 being too young - and guidance is a key word. Guiding does NOT mean directing and dictating. It doesn't mean monitoring and making sure she is doing every little bit. If she doesn't do that for herself by now, she should be learning to! And my children will ALWAYS have the right to disagree. I don't want sheep, I want independent thinkers! That DOESN'T mean they get to talk disrespectfully or get to do what they want - but they DO get to disagree. In fact, some of the best conversations and growing moments they have had was through discussion when they disagreed. Children have minds and observation powers of their own - allowing them to discuss their disagreement helps them exercise that (especially when they know respectful discussion is the only way to be heard). Most of the time they realize where you are coming from and learn from that. Sometimes their mental capacity or experience doesn't let them see it now, but they do later. Sometimes they make observations or comparisons and even show ME when I am wrong or missed something. Children deserve that much respect - and they have respect for others by the modeling we give them. Again I note, however, that my child is doing quite well - that her "failures" still put her at a higher level than most kids, and that she seems to be doing ok even when she had virtually NO guidance that first quarter. I fail to see how my "permissiveness" has ruined her? As for the extra curricular - yes, she missed one show she wanted to be in when she was grounded, but those things are as important as school, to my mind. They keep a child active and participating, provide socialization, and keep them from less productive pursuits like computers/tvs/hanging out... Plus, they provide connections and activities that look good for scholarships, too.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 10, 2008 17:14:05 GMT -5
Yep..... Im sorry, parenting is not a democracy, it is a monarchy at best. It isn't till they are way older in their teens that you should try to "discuss" with them. That doesn't mean not to explain the why's and stuff especially when you have to discipline them. But all that mumbo jumbo about not wanting to crush a child's spirit does nothing more than give them an entitlement attitude and excuses for mediocraty in various places in their lives. Being smart doesn't and shouldn't give her any leeway. My son is way smart too, doesn't matter, changes nothing as far as the rules and the way he should obey them. As for the extra activities, it doesn't matter how good they are for them. It can be a great motivational tool. If you don't fix [insert problem] you wont be able to do [insert activity]. Because face it, if the same happened when they were out on their own, the same thing would be told to them by a coach, teacher, boss etc. You teach her nothing if you were to allow her to still do those "good for her" extras when she has not earned it. All or nothing with kids growing up. Besides, I have it on good authority that you are VERY permissive.
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Post by Mod (PQ-Kermie) on Jun 10, 2008 21:54:39 GMT -5
whoa whoa whoa.. now everybody just simmer down now I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents cause I happen to have said 11 year old under my roof.. and by god I will pit her against any freakin 16 year old when it comes to maturity. Yes she can stay by herself.. why .. cause she is in a neighborhood where I will get a phone call if she messes up. 2. because she has not once done something and tried to cover it up .. no matter how bad it was... cause we talk.. period. 3.. she has seen more shit in her life when visiting her mother than most adults will ever know there whole lives.. 4.. she has a brother that would jump in front of a truck for her if shit did hit the fan.. and it has many times.. not on my watch. So to answer any questions.. it depends on the child.. Its not the actual age its how they react and how the respond to different situations. I have seen grown women act less mature than my daughter. Does she get put in her place at times.. ya damn skippy.. but my method of parenting is I think alot different from most. Does it work? Ask me in 10 years.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 10, 2008 22:36:29 GMT -5
LOL, you wouldn't think that after a day of battling my little blonde tornado.
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Post by sheyd on Jun 10, 2008 23:46:28 GMT -5
Im sorry, parenting is not a democracy, it is a monarchy at best. It isn't till they are way older in their teens that you should try to "discuss" with them. Disagree - and my methods seem to be turning out pretty darn good kids, who are succeeding remarkably well! That doesn't mean not to explain the why's and stuff especially when you have to discipline them. But all that mumbo jumbo about not wanting to crush a child's spirit does nothing more than give them an entitlement attitude and excuses for mediocraty in various places in their lives. Again... not seeing it happen. Not only my own kids, but the thriving that took place by my niece who went from authoritarianism to this communication style and who went from almost dropping out of school before I got her to a B average in high school, a two year college degree, good job, home ownership and good parenting of her own... Being smart doesn't and shouldn't give her any leeway. My son is way smart too, doesn't matter, changes nothing as far as the rules and the way he should obey them. Nor does she get away from obeying the rules, etc (hence this thread). My daughter is very well behaved, has absolutely NO issues in school, is beloved by classmates and teachers alike, and even in her "bad" quarter makes honor role. Again - can't see how my style has hurt her! ;D As for the extra activities, it doesn't matter how good they are for them. It can be a great motivational tool. If you don't fix [insert problem] you wont be able to do [insert activity]. Because face it, if the same happened when they were out on their own, the same thing would be told to them by a coach, teacher, boss etc. You teach her nothing if you were to allow her to still do those "good for her" extras when she has not earned it. Again, she didn't get to be in the one play when she was grounded, so... But again, those extras aren't really "extras" - they are kind of necessities, I think. And if she had already been cast, she would have finished, because you don't let down a "team" - that would be another failure of responsibility. All or nothing with kids growing up. Besides, I have it on good authority that you are VERY permissive. Hmm... interesting. There are two ways I can think of you saying that - one is about Kori, and how I need to crack down. However, since that is a special case of a child who has differing needs because of generalized anxiety, and ISN'T able to handle what a child her age can handle, I don't think that is the same... (and yet, even there, she is successful in every area of her life but her home outbursts) The other... well, if it is that it is from two years ago and would be in VERY poor taste. Not to mention, being two year old opinions from an admittedly tainted source. Unless there are other sources you wish to mention?
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 11, 2008 6:26:44 GMT -5
okay, Im officially done with this. Not a damn thing in my life revolves around anything that happened OVER two years ago. It is apparent yours still does. Get over it.
Now if you hadn't slung a stupid mindless barb, I would have explained that as many many people who love you dearly have made comments both on the board and to their friends about how laid back you are sometimes to the point of passive. People talk about your usually unending calm and patience. Especially with kids who need more attention that others might. But if you would rather assume it is something hateful..................fine go ahead, but I've had enough. You are the only one still obsessing.
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Post by bobfromacctg on Jun 11, 2008 7:38:34 GMT -5
I think the raising of kids has everything to do with genetics. I have two children that are complete opposites though they were raised the same. One followed my lead and responded to my corrections - the other basically told me "Who the hell are you and why should I do anything you say?".
10 years later we are pretty good friends and he has come around. I would not have thought it years ago..
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Post by sheyd on Jun 11, 2008 8:09:22 GMT -5
But if you would rather assume it is something hateful..................fine go ahead, but I've had enough. Permissive is a completely derogatory term. Doubt I could have taken it as anything other than hateful. You have also basically said I am permissive to the point of letting my kids run wild and not supervising enough - even though the success rate suggests I am doing SOMETHING right. Then you say you have it on "good authority" - as in WHOSE - and that I am VERY permissive - and I am supposed to think of that as a compliment? Not patient, not laid back - PERMISSIVE. AND - I am NOT the one who BRINGS UP things from over two years ago - EVER. Nor is it a GET OVER thing, and pretty rude of you to say so. Forgiveness is easily given, but pain caused and reminded doesn't go away. Thanks for the understanding, though.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jun 11, 2008 8:55:01 GMT -5
Permissive is a completely derogatory term. Doubt I could have taken it as anything other than hateful. Actually the definition is: allowing freedom; esp., tolerant of behavior or practices disapproved of by others; indulgent; lenient Anyone who knows Shey, knows that she is always there with a calm reasoned response. That she would rather have a long discussion with someone about something that a short fight. Forgiving to the point of fault about other's points of view and failings. Yeah they know you are usually hard to rile. Im sure that you do just fine with your daughters. They are obviously incredibly smart and that has as much to do with genes as it does with a parent being involved and interested in their children's well being. I admire parents who focus on their child's education as well as their involvement in the extras. My own mother was too sick when I was growing up to make any such allowances or focus on that at all. However, if you must know the truth. I will not name names because.........well because I just wont do that to those people. But I know and have spoken to several people who have met you and your angels in person and they say you tend to be a bit on the leinent side with some things. Who cares though Shey. You are happy with your parenting and I've learned that everyone has a slightly different parenting style. And as Bob pointed out, different things work for different kids, it is all a knack of learning which things works for your kid. I've learned more in listening to those I diagree with that I ever have just going with the flow as far as parenting tips go. I just thought to offer my own differing opinion, but I guess that isn't allowed around here? I haven't EVER EVER been the one to bring it up. If something was mentioned that was even similar to what might have occured, then the conclusion was immediately jumped to without any discussion. You draw your own parallels, and I let you because I figure if it makes it easier for you to do so rather than talk to me/face the truth of things, then fine. I don't want to continue this in public, but if you feel the need to still talk, I am willing to take this to a private venue Shey. At some point you have to make the choice to let things go rather than let them affect the course of the rest of your life. Respectfully, D
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JC
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Jun 11, 2008 9:04:40 GMT -5
Permissive is a completely derogatory term. Doubt I could have taken it as anything other than hateful. Actually the definition is: allowing freedom; esp., tolerant of behavior or practices disapproved of by others; indulgent; lenient Anyone who knows Shey, knows that she is always there with a calm reasoned response. That she would rather have a long discussion with someone about something that a short fight. Forgiving to the point of fault about other's points of view and failings. Yeah they know you are usually hard to rile. Im sure that you do just fine with your daughters. They are obviously incredibly smart and that has as much to do with genes as it does with a parent being involved and interested in their children's well being. I admire parents who focus on their child's education as well as their involvement in the extras. My own mother was too sick when I was growing up to make any such allowances or focus on that at all. However, if you must know the truth. I will not name names because.........well because I just wont do that to those people. But I know and have spoken to several people who have met you and your angels in person and they say you tend to be a bit on the leinent side with some things. Who cares though Shey. You are happy with your parenting and I've learned that everyone has a slightly different parenting style. And as Bob pointed out, different things work for different kids, it is all a knack of learning which things works for your kid. I've learned more in listening to those I diagree with that I ever have just going with the flow as far as parenting tips go. [glow=red,2,300] I just thought to offer my own differing opinion, but I guess that isn't allowed around here?[/glow] I haven't EVER EVER been the one to bring it up. If something was mentioned that was even similar to what might have occured, then the conclusion was immediately jumped to without any discussion. You draw your own parallels, and I let you because I figure if it makes it easier for you to do so rather than talk to me/face the truth of things, then fine. I don't want to continue this in public, but if you feel the need to still talk, I am willing to take this to a private venue Shey. At some point you have to make the choice to let things go rather than let them affect the course of the rest of your life. Respectfully, D umm no its not
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