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Post by freckles on Feb 6, 2009 11:00:14 GMT -5
40,000 People die each year in Auto Accidents In War when that many Solders die it is considered aful in 10 Days that many have been murdered by Drs And if somehow the Baby is Born during the Abortion It gets thrown into the Trash , Alive www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,488644,00.html P.S. And that is just in the USA
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Post by ionysis on Feb 8, 2009 9:05:32 GMT -5
This article refers to an abortion performed in the 23rd week of pregnancy. Usually it is extremely unlikely such a procedure would be authorised unless there was evidence that either the mother or baby would be severely physically harmed by the pregancy running to term.
I am not supportive of "late-term" abortions except in the above instance. But I have no moral issue with the termination of a foetus in the early weeks of gestation.
The essential political question concerning abortion is: does the fetus have a right to be in the body of a woman against the will of the woman? I personally believe no. There is no such thing as the right to live inside the body of another, i.e. there is no right to enslave. A woman is not a breeding pig owned by the state (or church).
Nevertheless there are compassionate grounds that suffering should not be inflicted on a "conscious" being. Scans that look at the structure of the foetal brain at 23 to 24 weeks show that the human brain is extremely immature. It is the period between 24 and 40 weeks that is largely responsible for brain development. The link between cortex and the rest of the body doesn’t come into play until 23 to 24 weeks, when the first connections are created.
I personally find the concept of abortion past the 12th week distateful and to be avoided except in the most extreme of circumstances. But my view concurs with the legal view that the fetus is not a "being" only a potential being until such time as it can survive outside the womb and until the brain and central nervous system is functional.
An abortion of a foetus wherby the brain and body are not connected is not the "murder" of a being in my view. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).
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Post by soupnazi on Feb 8, 2009 9:36:33 GMT -5
Ionysis wrote:
The essential political question concerning abortion is: does the fetus have a right to be in the body of a woman against the will of the woman? I personally believe no. There is no such thing as the right to live inside the body of another, i.e. there is no right to enslave. A woman is not a breeding pig owned by the state (or church).
Wow. Now the child is trespassing, and the penalty is death.
Unbelievable.
Oh hey, don't hit a dog that bites you though. You know, cruelty to animals and all that. Might go to jail.
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Post by freckles on Feb 8, 2009 9:58:50 GMT -5
You do know the Soul enters the Baby at Conception And when they Die they go to Heaven When you are in Heaven you are at your Best Age - 25 ? There are Millions of People in Heaven, that when you ask them this Question What did you do in Your Life ? They would answer something like * I was going to be a Dr or a Nurse or .............. And I was going to get Married and do lots of things like......................... But, My Mom had a Abortion and Murdered me And the Angels Comfort them Forevor and ever
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Post by ionysis on Feb 9, 2009 2:19:38 GMT -5
Actually I disagree. The "soul" is, I believe, fundamentally linked to self-awareness / consciousness. That is why humans have souls and nothing else does. A foetus at that stage of development is not a self-aware being. It is only a POTENTIAL being.
"Wow. Now the child is trespassing, and the penalty is death.
Unbelievable."
Its not a child. Its a foetus. A potential child yes, but not a child.
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Post by JimB on Feb 9, 2009 9:54:02 GMT -5
I've always found it interesting that the vast majority of so-called "pro-life" opinion leaders are men. Women, who have much more of a vested interest, seem to be much more moderate in their positions....
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Post by jules on Feb 9, 2009 11:56:00 GMT -5
I've always found it interesting that the vast majority of so-called "pro-life" opinion leaders are men. Women, who have much more of a vested interest, seem to be much more moderate in their positions.... I wonder if the same would be true if men could get pregnant. I'm guessing not...
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Post by Phyxius on Feb 9, 2009 13:20:57 GMT -5
I've always found it interesting that the vast majority of so-called "pro-life" opinion leaders are men. Women, who have much more of a vested interest, seem to be much more moderate in their positions.... I wonder if the same would be true if men could get pregnant. I'm guessing not... Ummmm... no. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrement...
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Post by soupnazi on Feb 9, 2009 22:58:19 GMT -5
Actually I disagree. The "soul" is, I believe, fundamentally linked to self-awareness / consciousness. That is why humans have souls and nothing else does. A foetus at that stage of development is not a self-aware being. It is only a POTENTIAL being. "Wow. Now the child is trespassing, and the penalty is death. Unbelievable." Its not a child. Its a foetus. A potential child yes, but not a child. Give me a break. A potential being? NO. If carried to term, it is not going to come out as a big screen TV or a head of lettuce. Call it what it is, it is a child. There is no wondering what it will be if it is carried to term. Abortion in most cases is done as an "uh-oh" procedure. A cure to an inconvenience.
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Post by ionysis on Feb 12, 2009 1:46:48 GMT -5
I wonder how you'd feel if it was your body that had to carry and give birth to the baby? But of course you're a man so YOU will never be put in the position where you have to make that kind of choice will you.
Unwanted pregnancies are a fact of life. Some women are irresponsible, some are unlucky, some are violated - abstinence is the only sure-fire way of avoiding pregnancy. I'm sure you'd be recommending that, right???
You are entitled to your opinion but I don't believe that any woman should be forced, against her will, to allow another human being, baby or not, to use her body for any purpose.
And IMO unless you've personally had to deal with the possibility of having an unwelcome incumbent gestating in YOUR womb, your opinion is purely academic.
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Post by freckles on Feb 12, 2009 13:31:07 GMT -5
They can Implant Birth Control in a Womans arm that will last for 5 Years
That would be Better than a Abortion once or twice a Year as a form of * Birth Control
There are a LOT of Young Women who have allready had 5 or 10 Abortions before they are 20 years old
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Post by soupnazi on Feb 12, 2009 16:40:02 GMT -5
I wonder how you'd feel if it was your body that had to carry and give birth to the baby? But of course you're a man so YOU will never be put in the position where you have to make that kind of choice will you. Unwanted pregnancies are a fact of life. Some women are irresponsible, some are unlucky, some are violated - abstinence is the only sure-fire way of avoiding pregnancy. I'm sure you'd be recommending that, right??? You are entitled to your opinion but I don't believe that any woman should be forced, against her will, to allow another human being, baby or not, to use her body for any purpose. And IMO unless you've personally had to deal with the possibility of having an unwelcome incumbent gestating in YOUR womb, your opinion is purely academic. I don't see how it is forced if a womb owner allowed another human being to use her body, as you put it. Either way, as you said, you are entitled to you opinion, and on this, we will agree to disagree. I would think we both could agree on the fact that there should be better education about pregnancy prevention in the poor and under educated segments of our society. Statistics show that the largest percentages of abortions that are performed are in those groups.
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Post by jules on Feb 12, 2009 17:02:05 GMT -5
Um, the majority of those who have terminated pregnancies in the United States conceived WHILE using birth control. In other words, the birth control failed. While there are of course exceptions, the majority of those who terminate pregnancy do not do so as a form of birth control.
As for the "lot" of young women who have had 5 - 10 abortions by age 20, I'd like to see statistics, please. While you're at it, why don't you research the number of abortions performed at 23 weeks. (Here's a hint -- it's approximately 1% of the abortions performed annually in the United States.)
Finally the rate of abortions (at least in the United States) is currently at the lowest it has been in approximately 20 years.
Using fact to help form opinion is a wonderful thing.
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Post by Phoenixx on Feb 12, 2009 18:36:18 GMT -5
Freckles, when are you going to stop reading/watching/listening to Fox news?
Never mind.
My friend has a saying: "no uterus, no opninion". Though I find that a little too damning, I guess my sentiment is that most people have TOO much opinion, often on something they know absolutely nothing about.
The point is, the choice is there. Allow people to make it in peace. Such a decision must already have far-reaching emotion/mental, physical and psychological impacts and having someone (often a man) screaming at you 'murderer!!' I am sure does not help.
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Post by freckles on Feb 12, 2009 18:42:18 GMT -5
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