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Post by kittenhart on Feb 8, 2009 4:43:19 GMT -5
So I have recently started dating again and the original plan was to play the field and date casually for awhile...although dating casually is never something I've really done before....I figured maybe I should have done more dating before I got married. Anyhow, things kindof got off that plan, I was seeing several different guys but it became obvious right away that they weren't for me...and now I find myself really liking just the one guy. He's super sweet, nice looking, charming, and we can talk easily for hours...I know you're thinking what's the problem, right? It came out tonight in discussion of something else that he was raised Muslim (not a practising Muslim now though). I'm not a super religious person at all - not an atheist but I'm not into organized religion (have my own metaphysical beliefs that I came to through a fair amount of mental work), and if he had said he was a devout Christian Fundamentalist that would have freaked me out as much or more, actually. Part of me is freaked because I have a friend who married a Muslim guy and it has been nothing but difficult for them, and they get so much resistance from their respective families. (I doubt that my family would care, really, as they tend to judge people in other ways...not on skin color or religion) I should have figured it out up front as he is Pakistani (but born here). I guess I'm just wondering if any kind of long term relationship with him would be sort of "doomed from the start" due to our different backgrounds...but like I said, neither one of us is very religious, and I'm not really sure how much it would matter in the end. It's not like either one of us is devout anything. (But I definately would not be converting.) Of course, I'm really starting to like him now. And I know that Jules (as well as others) are going to tell me not to overthink things so much and to just have fun and see where it goes but this is how I am...I do overthink things, yes, but I also don't want to keep making the same mistakes over and over and I really don't want to hurt anyone else in the process. Anyone have anything useful to advise me? (Please don't just flame me...that would not be helpful to me at all right now...I'm only trying not to get hurt and also to do no harm.) I'm also finding it hard to believe that I've really become so risk adverse and gun-shy that I'm lying awake worrying about this- wtf? Does it get easier??
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Post by ionysis on Feb 8, 2009 8:29:10 GMT -5
Hi Khart,
As you know I live in a Muslim country and I would not contemplate going out with a local here. BUT the reason for that is not religious it is cultural.
There can be significant issues with going out with men from Islamic countries but it sounds like your gentleman was born and brought up in the US and is not a practising Muslim.
I would therefore have no worries at all on that basis.
My parents closest friends are from different religions, races and cultures (he is lapsed Hindu and Indian and she is white south african protestant - neither of them are religious at all). They have been married for thirty years and have two lovely, well-balanced and incredibly well educated children who have knowledge of both their parents heritage.
Treat this like you would any other relationship, get to know him better and make an informed judgement as to whether your values, opinions and attitudes are compatible. If so great, if not, move on.
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Post by kittenhart on Feb 8, 2009 14:20:03 GMT -5
Treat this like you would any other relationship, get to know him better and make an informed judgement as to whether your values, opinions and attitudes are compatible. If so great, if not, move on. Thanks for the calm advice, Ion. I understand what you are saying about the cultural differences being harder than the religious ones. I work with many recently immigrated Muslims and the cultural dissonance is noticable. But coming to Canada as a teenager is a much different situation than being born and raised in Canada. I guess I just have to wait and see ...wish I didn't feel like a spooked horse all the time.
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Post by freckles on Feb 8, 2009 15:14:16 GMT -5
If You have Kids
Who is in Charge of what the Kids are exposed to ?
Him
or
You
?
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Post by kittenhart on Feb 8, 2009 16:57:42 GMT -5
Both of us would be. He has already said that he wants kids and wants to be an active dad (apparently his own dad wasn't a great father and then died when he was little..so he's reflected alot on the the importance of a male parent). I'm not sure how much the category of religion really matters if he is non-practicing. I mean I have a religion listed on my birth documents but it is kindof an irrelevant factor since my family was never religious and doesn't attend church. I did have a fair bit of exposure to different religions, travelling with my family and living in other countries, I went to a Catholic school for a few years (not Catholic though) and I attended some different churches as a teenager with friends, and my parents didn't disallow it...I mean, if I'd joined a cult or something they might have objected but my parents always let me formulate my own ideas. But I guess really it's a question of fundamental values being compatible. (I think I might just be oversensitized to the issue because of experiences at my work, truthfully.)
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Post by JimB on Feb 9, 2009 9:46:10 GMT -5
I guess I'm not sure what the difficulty is. Clearly things are going well and you're compatible on many levels. Are you really already at a stage when you need to contemplate these big-picture issues relating to a long-term future together?
I tend to believe that many of these kinds of issues become clearer with time. Obviously there is cause for some concern (or at least food for thought), but every relationship presents some obstacles. If the two of you have some degree of proficiency at working together to overcome small challenges, you needn't concern yourself overmuch about the big ones. And if you haven't had to work through any small challenges yet, wait and see how those go before starting to worry about the big ones.
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Post by jules on Feb 9, 2009 11:54:52 GMT -5
Aw, K, haven't you figured out by now that I'm the queen of overthinking, myself? I just try my hardest NOT to do so, and encourage others to do the same since I know how I get when I start overthinking... not pretty. In regards to your situation, I don't think that it is a problem at this point. You like him -- he likes you -- you're having fun -- you can communicate -- all good stuff. From what you've said, he's not some radical, and if he lived his life in a way that you were very opposed to, you would have figured that out by now and moved on. You are a smart woman -- give yourself some credit! And enjoy the good stuff. You deserve it. Try to focus on that rather than the hypothetical demons. Ok?
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Post by redskyatnight on Feb 9, 2009 13:08:42 GMT -5
But I guess really it's a question of fundamental values being compatible. Do your fundamental values conflict now? Have you talked about your beliefts to him? Has he talked about what he believes now vs being a practicing muslim? I'll have to disagree with letting it ride for now. Fundamentals are important and it is good to think about them now, rather than later when they conflict and you are already bonded to this guy.
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Post by Bobfromacctg on Feb 9, 2009 14:50:05 GMT -5
My advice is simply...run away run away and here is why.
He may be non-practising now - BUT once children show up, typically, that changes. I have seen it happen many times with faiths across the spectrum so I'm not talking about Muslim anymore than I am any other.
With kids comes the matter of passing on culture, family structure etc and while that may not matter now, I'm betting it would later on.
Google is your friend. Check out and see what others have said about interfaith marriages once children arrive.
Good luck and sorry that he is the one that you are interested in - isn't that the way it just seems to work...
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Post by JimB on Feb 9, 2009 17:03:00 GMT -5
Not to paint with a broad brush or anything Bob....
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Post by kittenhart on Feb 9, 2009 20:57:41 GMT -5
He may be non-practising now - BUT once children show up, typically, that changes. With kids comes the matter of passing on culture, family structure etc and while that may not matter now, I'm betting it would later on. This is why I'm worried. Because I have seen this happen to friends of mine. Do your fundamental values conflict now? Fundamentals are important and it is good to think about them now, rather than later when they conflict and you are already bonded to this guy. No, our values don't conflict now...not from what I've seen so far. But honestly, I'm more than a little chicken shit about getting my heart crushed again...and finding out that this is a dealbreaker down the road when I'm already really attached....that's why I'm kindof jumpy about this right now- when it seems early to be thinking this way. Remember I spent (wasted?) 14 years with a guy who seemed to have meshing values with me, and then turned out to not want children at all, after I waited for years for him to "be ready". (I don't know how to tell anymore if I'm making good choices for myself. Guess I just don't trust myself anymore.) Anyhow, it isn't like I have to make any decisions right away. I'm enjoying his company and vice versa and I can drift along with that for a bit and observe more. I really appreciate all the feedback because, like I said, I can really overthink things sometimes and it's good to have an outside opinion.
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Post by ionysis on Feb 12, 2009 2:15:37 GMT -5
Could I please point out that Muslims and Christians have common principles of faith, worship, and morals. They both believe in one God and both Islam and Christianity accept Jesus as a teacher of God's guidance. This gives a large area of common ground with regards to general morality and shared values.
So what if he wants to teach his kids the values inherent in his religion? As long as he isn't fanatical and his cultural values are the same as yours this does not have to present a problem.
If both of you believe in religious tolerance there is no reason why your children cannot learn about both sides of their heritage. I have seen this work extremely well. The key is to ascertain which principles of Islam he feel strongly about and which principles of Christianity you feel strongly about and see if they correlate.
I think this is interesting and can establish an unusually good depth of communication through the need to go throuh a proper examination of your true compatibility. Most people don't bother doing this because they feel they have no need to.
Good luck with it.
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Post by Phoenixx on Feb 12, 2009 18:26:27 GMT -5
You knew I was going to chime in, right? First, I'm glad you found someone wonderful. I hope you are relaxing and enjoying the ride! Second, I know pretty much everyone knows I'm Muslim and I'd like to point out a few things. Its not religion here you so obv see as the problem, it's culture (as Ionysis pointed). I personally would not date someone from Saudia Arabia, eventhough we would have 'common ground' because of a shared religion - simply because we would be worlds apart. Then again, there's plenty of people right here in the West I wouldn't date! It isn't really 'practicing' or 'non-practicing' that is the problem, if he is a practicing Muslim (like I am) he would still need to adhere to tolerance, understanding, peace, and faithful worship WITHOUT shoving it down someone's throat - as I try to do. I have said this many times before, but will clarify again, Islam does not condone forcing someone to convert or pushing the religion onto someone. Information sharing is, of course, wonderful, but thats part of communication, right? Me and the ex did spend a long time talking about what we would do about kids(as he was a Seventh Day Advenist - not practicing). No matter how you raise your kids, remember they will make their own choices at some point. They may choose to become Muslim (as I know some converts did) no matter what you decide to teach them, or choose to go to another path. However, these issues seem, if not premature, then excessively worrying. Why aren't you enjoying this? You like him, he likes you! This is a good thing!! By the time these issues really come up, the two of you should have open levels of communication that will allow you to discuss everything with an open mind. I guess my motto is...enjoy it.
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Post by kittenhart on Feb 12, 2009 20:35:12 GMT -5
Muslims and Christians have common principles of faith, worship, and morals....This gives a large area of common ground with regards to general morality and shared values....So what if he wants to teach his kids the values inherent in his religion? As long as he isn't fanatical and his cultural values are the same as yours this does not have to present a problem. True enough. He is not a fanatic...and really, in the end, kids decide for themselves when they get older, anyhow. I think this is interesting and can establish an unusually good depth of communication through the need to go through a proper examination of your true compatibility. Most people don't bother doing this because they feel they have no need to. That I think is very true. Thank you for writing that down so clearly....something about seeing that statement on paper calms me, and makes me realize that this is not something that's inherently unworkable. You knew I was going to chime in, right? Was hoping you would, M :-) He is NOT trying to force anything on me at all....simply mentioned it in conversation. I was even the one who brought it up...because his parents were divorced, and I was asking him about that...and how that was for him because he was young, etc. It's me that started getting all freak-show panicky inside my head However, these issues seem, if not premature, then excessively worrying. Why aren't you enjoying this? I am enjoying it...just for some reason I keep waiting for something to be wrong with him cause he's so nice and normal (so far) and usually I'm a total nut magnet (one of the other guys I met recently was a Rastafarian- and quite adamant about it, too...don't even want to get into that -just an illustrative example.) But I promised RO already that I was going to knock it off with the waiting-for-something-bad-about-him stuff...that is my own bullshit and has nothing to do with him. (Poor guy) I picked out a valentine for him today...and yes, I did enjoy that. I really don't know why I'm oscillating between crazy and calm at such a high frequency ?? Maybe I wasn't as ready to be dating as I thought. Thanks for listening and responding. (really helpful for me)
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Post by redskyatnight on Feb 13, 2009 12:35:57 GMT -5
The crazy and calm will mellow out over time as you learn to trust him. You are protecting yourself, with reason, and as he earns your trust, you'll feel better.
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