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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 14:06:39 GMT -5
Who do we need protection from, Fluff? We already have what is arguably the most technologically sophisticated military in the world. Do you really think we need to build it up further? Should we re-institute the draft? Invade Iran? This war has absolutely fucked our economy. And for what? So that Planes are not crashing into our buildings No, we gave our government the right to hold suspects without charges and the right to torture those suspects as well as the right to tap our phones to insure that planes no longer crash into our buildings. I guess the idea was to emulate the government of the terrorists. If we are more like them perhaps they won't feel a need to kill us.
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 14:07:41 GMT -5
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Post by blazinheart on Feb 18, 2008 14:10:22 GMT -5
While I don't agree with the fact that we were led into war under mostly false pretenses, we're over there now, and I do think that having a functioning, western-friendly democracy in the middle east can only serve to stabilize the region. That is a region that needs stability and security.
Not to mention that Iraq has vast oil supplies of which America will eventually be the recipient of, for pennies on the dollar. Our military can't function without oil. So it serves our best interest to stay over there.
Pulling our troops out now would be a gargantuan mistake. I know Hillary has said something about pulling them out in 6 weeks or months if she get elected, don't know what Obama has said about the matter. But it's all obviously said to appeal to the growing far left.
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Post by freckles on Feb 18, 2008 14:11:02 GMT -5
So I am courious
The Terrorest Attack agan and kill Thousands of people. - * Agan
What would you do if you were running things ?
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Post by freckles on Feb 18, 2008 14:20:03 GMT -5
The Democrats would do Nothing
Zip
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 14:22:46 GMT -5
While I don't agree with the fact that we were led into war under mostly false pretenses, we're over there now, and I do think that having a functioning, western-friendly democracy in the middle east can only serve to stabilize the region. That is a region that needs stability and security. #1) That's a fairy tale. Iraq will never be a "functioning, western-friendly democracy." At least not in our lifetime. #2) We've got Israel, and look where that's got us. We can't win in the Middle East. Period. The "War on Terror" is another "War on Drugs" as far as I'm concerned. The only way for us to win in the Middle East is for us to divest ourselves from it. Eliminating our reliance on foreign oil is the only way we can achieve this, IMHO.
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Post by freckles on Feb 18, 2008 14:25:09 GMT -5
It is very easy and simple
Build Electric Cars have soler cells on the top of the car
And at home to charge a 2 nd set of batteries
Change the batteries every day
Zero Gas/Oil used
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 14:29:08 GMT -5
So I am courious The Terrorest Attack agan and kill Thousands of people. - * Agan What would you do if you were running things ? I would take a common sense approach. To me, Afghanistan was an appropriate response. Do we know who's responsible? Do we know where there base of operations is? Take the fight to them by any and all means. What I wouldn't do is use a terrorist attack as justification for invading a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with that attack just to satisfy my country's greed for foreign oil.
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Post by freckles on Feb 18, 2008 14:30:44 GMT -5
Oil is under the Ocean
There is way more Ocean than land
All those Fish rotting turn into Oil
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 14:33:42 GMT -5
It is very easy and simple Build Electric Cars have soler cells on the top of the car And at home to charge a 2 nd set of batteries Change the batteries every day Zero Gas/Oil used And we've yet to make that change on a significant level. Have you ever really thought about why that might be, Freck? Historically, your "Republican leadership" have been in bed with the oil companies. The Bush administration is probably the worst modern example of this. Their supporters have too much money to lose from them allowing us to be independent of foreign oil.
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Post by blazinheart on Feb 18, 2008 14:46:56 GMT -5
While I don't agree with the fact that we were led into war under mostly false pretenses, we're over there now, and I do think that having a functioning, western-friendly democracy in the middle east can only serve to stabilize the region. That is a region that needs stability and security. #1) That's a fairy tale. Iraq will never be a "functioning, western-friendly democracy." At least not in our lifetime. #2) We've got Israel, and look where that's got us. We can't win in the Middle East. Period. The "War on Terror" is another "War on Drugs" as far as I'm concerned. The only way for us to win in the Middle East is for us to divest ourselves from it. Eliminating our reliance on foreign oil is the only way we can achieve this, IMHO. Lumpy, as a liberal, that's your whole mantra: "we can't win in the middle east". But you don't know that. It's common knowledge that since the "surge" Iraq has stabilized greatly. We are making headway over there. And the fact that we have a military presence in a region that supports terrorism and has made open threats to the U.S. and our allies can only mean better security for America. The middle east is no longer this unseen, unforgotten region left to cook up their schemes of terrorism. They have someone watching them now, and that has made a huge difference. And the bottomline is, right now, we need oil. We aren't going to be independent of oil for a long time. Deal with it...as you hop on the bus or into your car and go purchanse the products that are shipped to you via petrol burning engines.
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Post by JimB on Feb 18, 2008 15:27:56 GMT -5
Freck, you may have noticed that a lot of Democrats were elected during the midterm elections in 2006. Democrats have a lot more power right now than they did when the Iraq war started. What have Democrats done since 2006 that makes you think they're spineless?
I can tell you why I think the Democrats are spineless: despite winning back a significant number of seats from the Republicans on an anti-war platform, they continue to issue blank checks to Dubya and his cronies to continue (and even escalate) this unpopular and ineffective war. Yes, Bush still has the veto, but they won't make him use it. Why on earth not?
McCain is looking better to me all the time. At least you know he's telling the truth when he says crazy things like "there's gonna be more wars." I guess crazy is better than spineless.
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Post by Dave on Feb 18, 2008 15:32:26 GMT -5
we can win in middle east - the problem is what we will get in return.
how many political benchmarks has the "Democratic" Iraqis attained?
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 15:47:45 GMT -5
I can tell you why I think the Democrats are spineless: despite winning back a significant number of seats from the Republicans on an anti-war platform, they continue to issue blank checks to Dubya and his cronies to continue (and even escalate) this unpopular and ineffective war. Yes, Bush still has the veto, but they won't make him use it. Why on earth not? McCain is looking better to me all the time. At least you know he's telling the truth when he says crazy things like "there's gonna be more wars." I guess crazy is better than spineless. The first statement I agree with 100%. The Dems have not backed up their promises regarding their election stances in regards to The War. That being said, it seems to me that McCain is guilty of the same flip-flopping. thinkprogress.org/2008/01/04/mccain-100-years/ First, he tried to distance himself from the Bush Administration, then he appears to embrace it. www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/john-mccain-flip-flops-on-iraq/103/ While none of the Dem candidates is wowing me, at least they're calling a spade a spade. In my opinion, this War is a failure on all fronts. It's lowered the world's opinion of us. It's a huge sinkhole for our tax dollars. Do we really want to continue to police the planet?
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Post by lumpy on Feb 18, 2008 15:59:17 GMT -5
It's common knowledge that since the "surge" Iraq has stabilized greatly. We are making headway over there. The citizens of Iraq might disagree with you a bit. abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3571504&page=1 But who asked them anyway?
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