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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 19:50:11 GMT -5
Steve, that is the whole problem. Alcoholism is not easily treatable. The cornerstone of any addiction, including alcoholism, is denial. You have a powerful drive to drink, tremendous denial, and a body that works against you when you drink. If I thought Freckles' idea of an exorcism might have worked, I would have begged every priest I could find for one. Alcoholism is not easy to treat. That is why I don't have my husband and my child does not have her father. It is not that easy. It's not that easy, Mags..but it's easier to treat than lung cancer. The person who is affected with alcoholism has more "control" over the outcome of this disease than terminal cancer. Just say'en.
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Post by Magalucia on Mar 15, 2008 19:56:00 GMT -5
Steve, that is the whole problem. Alcoholism is not easily treatable. The cornerstone of any addiction, including alcoholism, is denial. You have a powerful drive to drink, tremendous denial, and a body that works against you when you drink. If I thought Freckles' idea of an exorcism might have worked, I would have begged every priest I could find for one. Alcoholism is not easy to treat. That is why I don't have my husband and my child does not have her father. It is not that easy. It's not that easy, Mags..but it's easier to treat than lung cancer. The person who is affected with alcoholism has more "control" over the outcome of this disease than terminal cancer. Just say'en. Yes, usually it is. For others, in the gutter spitting up blood, alcoholism is just as fatal as other deadly illnesses.
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Post by finding on Mar 15, 2008 20:07:53 GMT -5
It's not that easy, Mags..but it's easier to treat than lung cancer. The person who is affected with alcoholism has more "control" over the outcome of this disease than terminal cancer. Just say'en. Yes, usually it is. For others, in the gutter spitting up blood, alcoholism is just as fatal as other deadly illnesses. That is caused by choices they made and is no one else's fault but their own.
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Post by Magalucia on Mar 15, 2008 20:12:11 GMT -5
Yes, usually it is. For others, in the gutter spitting up blood, alcoholism is just as fatal as other deadly illnesses. That is caused by choices they made and is no one else's fault but their own. And therefore it is not a disease? That is where I miss the logic.
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 20:14:25 GMT -5
Good news! I reserved a mud wrestling ring for all of us. That's a much better way to solve this debate.
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Post by Magalucia on Mar 15, 2008 20:15:54 GMT -5
Good news! I reserved a mud wrestling ring for all of us. That's a much better way to solve this debate. Enjoy yourselves. I am off to the fair with Maggie. Ciao.
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Post by finding on Mar 15, 2008 20:19:26 GMT -5
That is caused by choices they made and is no one else's fault but their own. And therefore it is not a disease? That is where I miss the logic. It is disrespectful and heartbreaking to put those who have a choice as to their outcome in the same classification as those who have no choice. A person with Down's, autism, CP, or any number of other diseases and syndroms cannot wake up in the morning and decided "Today I won't have ______" while it may be a struggle for an alcoholic, they HAVE that choice.
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Post by jules on Mar 15, 2008 20:21:50 GMT -5
Your barking up the wrong tree with this one Mags. I have been on welfare. I utilized services available after the ex and I split up to get myself ahead and where we needed to be. I have two boys with autism and if I so chose, I would never have to work a day in my life. I made the poor choice of marrying my ex, who turned out to be a dead beat dad and then killed himself. Nuances, schmoaunces. We are all accountable for our own actions. Finding, I don't mean any disrespect, but do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement? You say that people who make poor choices ought to live with the consequences of their actions. You say that you made poor choices. Yet you also say that you also received government assistance. What if the people who determined who does and doesn't get assistance had the same beliefs that you do re: poor choices and said "No, you decided to have children you couldn't afford with this man, tough cookies. You made your bed -- lie in it." To deny help to anyone in need because how how s/he came to be in need it is unconscionable, if not immoral. All human beings make mistakes. All human being deserve to be treated with dignity and compassion. I don't think many people have had near a hard of a road as I have had, and am still facing. I think that most people feel this way at some point in their lives. But a great antidote to self-pity is looking outside oneself and realizing that there are so many people in this world who are worse off and deserve our sympathy and compassion. Another is to count one's blessings, of which I dare to say every single one of us have many.
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Post by finding on Mar 15, 2008 20:39:35 GMT -5
Your barking up the wrong tree with this one Mags. I have been on welfare. I utilized services available after the ex and I split up to get myself ahead and where we needed to be. I have two boys with autism and if I so chose, I would never have to work a day in my life. I made the poor choice of marrying my ex, who turned out to be a dead beat dad and then killed himself. Nuances, schmoaunces. We are all accountable for our own actions. Finding, I don't mean any disrespect, but do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement? You say that people who make poor choices ought to live with the consequences of their actions. You say that you made poor choices. Yet you also say that you also received government assistance. What if the people who determined who does and doesn't get assistance had the same beliefs that you do re: poor choices and said "No, you decided to have children you couldn't afford with this man, tough cookies. You made your bed -- lie in it." To deny help to anyone in need because how how s/he came to be in need it is unconscionable, if not immoral. All human beings make mistakes. All human being deserve to be treated with dignity and compassion. I don't think many people have had near a hard of a road as I have had, and am still facing. I think that most people feel this way at some point in their lives. But a great antidote to self-pity is looking outside oneself and realizing that there are so many people in this world who are worse off and deserve our sympathy and compassion. Another is to count one's blessings, of which I dare to say every single one of us have many. It was a short time, and only to get us over the hump as he left us with no money. I've more than made up for the assistance I received several years ago. Hun, I have no self pity. I deal with the cards I am dealt, even though it is one of the shittiest hands I have ever seen. I have been beaten, raped, left pennyless, two kids with autism and a rare genetic disorder that may end up killing both of them, held my stillborn son, lost three other children, lost the home, friends, and life I built on my own, lost custody of my children for 3 months due to my ex's lies and false accusations, had his multiple affairs thrown in my face, faced a cancer scare, had a hysterectomy, saw my ex's lifeless body laying at the end of my street, and prepared a funeral for my children's father. How have your last two years been?
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 20:41:01 GMT -5
How have your last two years been? Um...after reading all that...my last 2 years don't seem quite so bad.
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Post by kittenhart on Mar 15, 2008 20:41:54 GMT -5
I don't think many people have had near a hard of a road as I have had, and am still facing. I think that most people feel this way at some point in their lives. But a great antidote to self-pity is looking outside oneself and realizing that there are so many people in this world who are worse off and deserve our sympathy and compassion. Another is to count one's blessings, of which I dare to say every single one of us have many. We all do have some blessings in our lives to be thankful for. And showing compassion for other people's situations doesn't detract from the very real difficulty of your situation, Finding. Surely there is enough compassion to go around.
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Post by jules on Mar 15, 2008 20:46:22 GMT -5
Finding, I truly do not mean to minimize what you have been through. I do have compassion for you, and think that it's wonderful you have had the strength to pull through not only for your own sake, but the sake of your children. I'm just saying that when one gets into that mode of feeling one's life is the worst, it helps to realize that there are others who have it just as bad or worse. And that you are blessed in ways that others are not.
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 20:58:00 GMT -5
Jules, I totally agree with what you are saying.
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Post by finding on Mar 15, 2008 20:58:06 GMT -5
Finding, I truly do not mean to minimize what you have been through. I do have compassion for you, and think that it's wonderful you have had the strength to pull through not only for your own sake, but the sake of your children. I'm just saying that when one gets into that mode of feeling one's life is the worst, it helps to realize that there are others who have it just as bad or worse. And that you are blessed in ways that others are not. I admit that perhaps I am jaded, I haven't asked for or recieved any help through all of this. I get respite care to help out with the boys and their needs, there is only so much one person can do. The events of my life have made me stronger than I ever thought I could be, and I am proud of that. Through it all I have made some major accomplishments for me. I guess the underlying thought for me is people use these classifications as a crutch and an excuse to continue poor behaviors. We all have choices to make in our lives, the choice to continue to drink when you know it is a problem for you (such as my ex and many of my family memembers), and to use the excuse that you can't help yourself because you have a "disease" discredits not only yourself, but those who don't have a choice in their circumstances.
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 21:00:50 GMT -5
I have enormous compassion for alcoholics because for starters it must be a really tragic thing if one CAN get help and still keep sliding off the wagon....it must be a really powerful thing. Severe depression is usually the root cause and they self medicate.
Illlnesses of the mind are every bit as severe and hard to treat, if not more, then purely physical ailments.
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