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Post by Kim Possible on Aug 3, 2008 9:30:11 GMT -5
My daughter is 8 and a half. Most of the time, she acts like a 4 yr old. I do take some of the blame. As a baby, I know I did do everything for her. I honestly didn't stop to think at what age do you let them do things for themselves (like feeding, getting dressed, etc), and she was not one of those kids who insisted on doing things themselves. She is always asking me to get her things, especially like snacks and drinks. I've finally put an end to that, and have told her to get it herself. I have situated her usual snacks in a place she can reach them (they used to be in high cabinets). I know she will ask me, so i was never worried about her taking them without permission. Sadly, it took the other men in my life to point this out to me. My current bf and may last one (which was 2 yrs ago, he had a kid so i guess he saw how needy she was, even at 5-6 yrs old) The rest I blame on my ex. I know he coddles her, because he did when we were together. He was the type who never left the house wothout a snack and drink for her (just in case she needed it). At 4, you can wait (which is another issue, her total lack of patience). She has been dressing herself since kindergarten (almost 3 yrs now) at my house, and I know he was still dressing her after I stopped. I am making sure I am buying socks that are easier to put on b/c that was a majpr issue. I just don't want therre to be any excuses (you can reach your snacks, your clothes are not difficult to get on, etc). The bottom line is, she is lazy. My other major concern is school. She is going into 3rd grade. She has done well in school, no major issues. A few bad test grades here and there, and I know it was due to lack of concentration (math). She has to do three book reports over the summer, and I can see it's going to take a lot of work to get her back into school mode, let alone kicking it up a notch. She refuses to sound out words to figure out how to spell them, she'd rather me just tell her. As an educator, i am not a fan of just giving the answers (as my nnursing students would love for me to do ). You don't learn that way. Other 'not growing up' issues: -she is still constantly interrupting adult conversations. If it's not about her, she finds a way to make it about her. I know a lot of people are interrupters, kids and adults alike. But I can't deal with that. I can't deal with her "it's all about me" attitude, and I HATE the "she's an only child" cliche, b/c it doesn't have to be like that. My cousin has an only child, who is 3, and she has more manners.... because of the way her parents are raising her. -she is still throwing fits. She doesn't understand that no means no. She begs and pleads and tries to reason until I have to scream at her. then she cries like a 4 yr old (which she didn't do them, but I'm guessing that's because no one told her 'no' back then ). Isn't she way too old to be doing this? -she is still acting wild and hyper. This weekend has been pretty bad, not sure if it's b/c she just came back from camp, where every moment was filled. I can't fill her day enough. I have been draggin lately, exhausted as hell. The more hyper she acts, the more tired I get. She almost hurt herself three times yesterday, while being goofy. -I've been trying to instill the "young lady hygiene" habits into her, and she's not biting. She still argues about showering, brushing her teeth and other stuff. Hairwashing is still a nightmare, and she needs to wash it almost daily, or it will oil up. I need to get her into these habits where she will feel the need to do it on her own, and not be forced. because when she is with her father, it is not happening enough. -and here's the most frustrating one: she is VERY clingy. I am all for random acts of affection, but she takes it to the poinnt where I need to pry her off of me in public, and forcefully tell her to sto huggin or kissing me. Again, when I am not giving her my undivided attention, she needs to do this. She got up in the middle of brealfast to hug me, and spilled her cereal. After she cleaned it up, my bf called me. While on the phone she interrupts me, to give me a hug. We're in the store and she does it. We're eating at a restaurant and she does it. She reminds me of a clingy girlfriend who needs to remind everyone that this is her bf. And yes, we spend a LOT of alone time together, just chilling on the couch or bed, relaxing, watching movies and making popcorn. My bf does not live with us, and most of the time no one else is around for playdates. There's more, but I'm downright embassassed to admit what this kid does and gets away with. It's becoming very frustrating and embarrassing. last night I was in tears, and told my bf I feel like a failure. Oh yeah, and therapy is not an option, b/c "there's nothing wrong with her, she's not crazy" (dad).
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Post by freckles on Aug 3, 2008 9:55:37 GMT -5
Maybe She wants Brothers and Sisters
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Post by Kim Possible on Aug 3, 2008 11:12:27 GMT -5
Yeah, b/c that'll solve the problem. I can't even raise one kid right
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Post by jules on Aug 3, 2008 11:32:53 GMT -5
It really sounds to me as though she's afraid of playing second fiddle to the "other men in your life." Have you talked with her about how she feels about your dating?
She looks at your getting her snacks, washing her hair, and dressing her as your nurturing her. I don't think it's so ridiculous for a parent to still be doing these things to some extent for an 8-year-old child -- doing so WITH her rather than FOR her or leaving her to do it on her own. That time is as quality (perhaps even more so) than watching movies or whatever.
On the contrary, "prying her off" of you or "screaming" at her are acts of rejection, which will probably only add to her feelings of insecurity.
You are an educator of nursing students, but nursing students aren't 8 years old. No, you shouldn't be doing the work "for" her, but you can sit down with her, have her read to you, sound out the words with you, and discuss the books together. Children do learn that way. In fact, that's how I "got" Shakespeare -- reading it aloud with my mom. And I was older than 8.
Finally, you say she has no one around for playdates. You may need to start being proactive about arranging playdates with her friends from school, camp, etc. Back when I was growing up, it was easy to find playmates -- all you had to do was go outside, wander around your neighborhood, and make friends. It's different these days for a variety of reasons. But playdates are essential. Peer pressure isn't always a bad thing. She can see how other children her age are at home, and have friends come over. Chances are she won't want to be seen as a "baby" by her peers, and she may adjust her more immature behavior accordingly.
I'm so sorry for your frustration. You are not a failure. Every kid is different. Yours happens to need more a little more nurturing -- possibly stemming from being a child of divorced parents, possibly because that is just her nature, and most likely a combination of the two plus other factors. If you focus your attention on simultaneously acknowledging her feelings while working with her to teach her independence, chances are your relationship will be a lot happier for both of you.
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Post by sheyd on Aug 4, 2008 8:55:32 GMT -5
I agree with the idea of more playdates- and also maybe start enforcing she play alone sometimes. I just watched a Nanny 911 show about kids like that - loving sweet wonderful kids who didn't want to be independent. One thing the nanny pointed out was that a lot of the coddling was because the PARENT liked it, but that the kids need to know they can do it on their own - and THAT is the sense of security that they need, NOT that the parent is there all the time. A kid needs to know if something happens, they will be fine whether or not the parent responds. You have to set the limits yourself. She IS using you as a soother, and interupting and being grabby to reassure herself that you will always be there. She needs to find a way to reassure herself that even if you AREN'T there, she is ok.
I would suggest, in every problem area, you set the limits. She may interupt once for every half hour of phone call or adult visit, or she will get 2 minutes of time out alone in her room for every time beyond that that she tries, unless it is an emergency. She will either use it up right away (highly likely) then watch the clock, or she will hoard it, and maybe won't interupt at all. At first she may get a long time out - and that is fine - that is one good way to foster that independence as she will have to be alone for that length of time. Explain to her why you are making each rule and that she is now a big girl and you want her to learn to be independent. One way to point this out is to explain if she DOES have a friend over, she wouldn't want you interupting all the time either.
Same goes for clinginess - set a limit on the length of time for a hug or kiss. It will be obnoxious at first, since it will seem like you don't WANT to hug or kiss her (which isn't the case), but eventually she will self-monitor and you won't have to. You want her to learn social boundaries before she gets too old. It is better she learn that clingy means people don't want that affection from you than try to learn it as an adult. Plus, she DOES know you love her and are there for her - and the best way to prove it is to have those boundaries in place. I had to tell my youngest if she tries to hug too long or kiss too much at bedtime I wouldn't tuck her. It took a bit, but now she still gets the affection, and it is not unpleasant. Nothing like giving affection and having someone reject you for it because you pushed their boundaries! Your daughter (and mine) have to learn that they can control their own insecurities and they feel stronger and more independent for it (and no less loved).
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Post by Dave on Aug 4, 2008 11:32:24 GMT -5
Rent a season of SuperNanny - So much of a child's bad behavior is due to parental permissiveness and so often by the time that change is ready to be made the parents are oblivious to their own culpability. Good parenting requires reflection as well as foresight, easier for some, but a possibility for all.
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Post by sheyd on Aug 4, 2008 12:07:06 GMT -5
Few more things... I do take some of the blame. As a baby, I know I did do everything for her. I honestly didn't stop to think at what age do you let them do things for themselves (like feeding, getting dressed, etc), and she was not one of those kids who insisted on doing things themselves. It isn't about blame. It doesn't matter what you (or your ex) did or didn't do wrong in the past - you did the best you could at the time, with what info you had. Now you have different info, so start your own actions from NOW instead of worrying about blame or past mistakes. -she is still throwing fits. She doesn't understand that no means no. She begs and pleads and tries to reason until I have to scream at her. then she cries like a 4 yr old (which she didn't do them, but I'm guessing that's because no one told her 'no' back then ). Isn't she way too old to be doing this? No - she is just pushing the boundaries. She will do that until she is sure the boundaries are firm (which if no is new to her might take awhile). You are doing the right thing by staying firm. Eventually she will get the point it won't work. Another trick I do is ignore until the "voice" I hear is reasonable. Or I say "did you say something, I couldn't hear anything with all this whining and crying going on?" Negotiation is allowed, as long as it is reasonable and sounds reasonable. She can get her way better if she can control herself and once she knows the new rules, you will be surprised how fast she will pick them up. -she is still acting wild and hyper. This weekend has been pretty bad, not sure if it's b/c she just came back from camp, where every moment was filled. I can't fill her day enough. I have been draggin lately, exhausted as hell. The more hyper she acts, the more tired I get. She almost hurt herself three times yesterday, while being goofy. My FAVORITE phrase used to be "I'm not your entertainment system". You don't HAVE to fill her day. If she needs to work out energy, take her to a local playground (you take a book) and let her run it off. And LET her get hurt, as long as she isn't going to ruin anything you don't want ruined or have a chance of dying. It will teach her to watch out for her own surroundings. Nothing settles a hyper child like smashing their own elbows or ankles, and I have little sympathy for my kids when they hurt themselves being stupid. -I've been trying to instill the "young lady hygiene" habits into her, and she's not biting. She still argues about showering, brushing her teeth and other stuff. Hairwashing is still a nightmare, and she needs to wash it almost daily, or it will oil up. I need to get her into these habits where she will feel the need to do it on her own, and not be forced. because when she is with her father, it is not happening enough. This one I worry about less - my girls didn't start caring until late 9's... not sure why. Seems like a magic number. My 6 year old is still a gross little piggy, occasionally still even sticking her tongue to her nose to try to lick what is streaming out (with a tissue not 2 feet away from her - UGGH!) As long as you are forcing her, she will fight it all, anyway. As long as she doesn't embarass you (like she has to shower before you take her to the mall), a little dirt or oily hair won't hurt her - it is summer after all. And she should be brushing her own hair. Even my 6 year old will do that on her own. Let her get really really gross, then refuse to do something fun because she is too embarassing - guarantee she will clean up on her own. She has to find her OWN carrot - you can't always be the stick. Oh - and look up some yucky teeth pictures on the internet and show them to her. Her teeth ARE her own so she gets to decide (ultimately) how to care for them. Of course, you don't have to pay for dentist visits either (if she doesn't care enough to brush) so she can look like (insert yucky teeth picture here). Give her the power to make her own choices, but give her the knowledge to make them wisely. ;D
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Post by Kim Possible on Aug 6, 2008 20:25:10 GMT -5
It really sounds to me as though she's afraid of playing second fiddle to the "other men in your life." Have you talked with her about how she feels about your dating? Yes, and the whole "I wish you and daddy were still together" came up. Again. Almost three and a half years later. As I mentioned, there is really not a lot of time that the three of us spend together. Maybe once a week he sees her. And yes, i'm going to compare it to my ex and his gf who live together. Every waking moment at daddy's house is spent with daddy, his gf and her son. I do think that may be part of the issue, that she is not the center of attention over there. I have tried to give into it, letting her hug and kiss for as long as she needs to. Kind of a reverse psychology. but it hasn't helped, it's actually become worse. it's only over the past couple weeks where i have (as gently as possible) tried to cut it off. But, as Shey pointed out, I have to put the clingi-ness to a hault. I am doing all of this already, believe me. She reads aloud to me quite often, especially when we are in the car (she does her best reading then). I make her sound things out, figure out how to spell something when she asks, even when it is not school related. The more I try to get the answers out of her, the more her frustration builds. I don't mean to sound like a pathetic soul, but I can tell you exactly how many times anyone from her class has contacted us.... zero times. And I have made the effort, but for the most part, I know most of her friends are busy: summer homes, vacations, beach or pool clubs, or 'family' time. We basically have only one friend we see on a semi-regular basis.... the OTHER divorced mom!!! And Shey: as usual, you have some great insight!! I know you are dealing with this x3 (well not necessarily all the same issues!!). While I know every kid is different, and I know my daughter has a very strong personality, and I can't imagine what it is like to have to flip-flop from mommy to daddy, I just feel like it has to be me (and her father) b/c I do realize kids don't magically learn how to behave and respect and all that. And yes Mr Dave, I have seen all forms of the nanny shows on tv these days, and one if the things I know they harp on is consistency (which will never happen in her life). And with all do respect, if I were obvious, this thread wouldn't exist. if you don't think for a minute that every time my child faulters, that I am not thinking that it is something I am doing wrong, you are quite mistaken.
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blu
Full Member
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Post by blu on Aug 13, 2008 16:53:13 GMT -5
I had this long and thorough response typed out then lost it when my computer updated. So to abbreviate: 1 - You are a great mom, spend good time with her and your families and do plenty of great trips/concerts/games with her. 2 - Your relationship with J is not the issue it is great, stable and responsible. 3 - She gets plenty of play time from what I know with S and other school mates, cousins and activities 4 - Hygiene is just not on their radar until about 4th or 5th grade from my experience. Fashion happens earlier explaining why they will wear the favorite shirt 4 days in a row, but not think to wash it. 5 - The divorce might be a factor but after this time I think it boils down to kids are smart, way smart and will try to get away with what they want in life - because let's face we would like to be able to also. Now that L is older she can clearly articulate this principle when I ask why she does things. 6 - Some children are just higher needs with respect to attention. Two of mine have not been and the middle one would suck the very life out of me some days with her need for attention! 6 - The only advice I have is yes consistency when you can. Set limits when possible - I will rub your back for ten minutes. I have 15 minutes I can sit with you and listen right now. I will take you to a movie on the weekend. We can do that craft tomorrow after work etc.... this seems to help her. Also do set and follow consequences you can live with. I can't do a week without TV - why should I punish myself too?? Oh and lastly - you only have one so nobody for her to fight with, this is good thinking!!!! When does school start?
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Post by kittenhart on Aug 13, 2008 19:58:59 GMT -5
regina,
You've gotten some excellent advice here.....I just wanted to add that I don't think you should feel guilty about all of this being related to divorce....I think to some extent kids always try to play one parent off against the other- divorce or not- and if Daddy let's her act like a spoiled princess, she will continue to act helpless at his place and there isn't anything you can do about that.....so no point stressing about it or even trying to get Dad on board because it is likely to be a waste of your time. It sounds like she has plenty of your attention and as Shey said you are not an "entertainment system"...my phrase when I was a nanny was "I am not a dancing bear....sorry". Don't feel like you have to fill every min of her day or tolerate her every little interuption.
I really have to echo what others said about getting her some playdates...and then using the peer pressure to your advantage....other kids will balk if she starts acting all babyish and will tell her to suck it up and go do it herself....THAT is super effective....Also, if the only friends she has to play with are older, try telling them outright, "Please don't help X with her shoes, snack, coat, whatever it is....let her do it on her own...we don't want her to grow up to be helpless do we? We want her to be capable....that means able to do things for herself," Spell it out to the other kids right in front of her...matter of factly....she'll only have to hear that once and next thing you know....her shoes will be tied, coat on, and she'll be in the car, fastened up before you are. Just be prepared to be a bit more tired for the first week while you go into super consistent-mode....after that, it should get easier.
oh...and if she has a fit and won't dress herself ie/just starts screaming/freaking etc....just laugh at her...start splitting a gut right in front of her....then go and get in the car and tell her she can come along if she's dressed/reasonable. This is more effective the more siblings/friends are around to also observe though....I know this sounds mean, and harsh, and humiliating....but this only has to happen once- and it will nip it in the bud....she will have alot more, worse humiliating experiences if she continues to act babyish at school. Sad to say, but true.
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Aug 14, 2008 6:50:09 GMT -5
Hmmmmmmmm, that is interesting...........I wonder............
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Post by Kim Possible on Aug 14, 2008 9:44:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
I wonder if what I'm feeling is magnified b/c it is summer vacation, and there is a lot more 'down time'.
She goes back Sept 3rd. Lat, I know, but that's when NY kids always go back. They don't get out until the end of June.
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blu
Full Member
Posts: 145
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Post by blu on Aug 14, 2008 11:15:04 GMT -5
Yes I think by this time each summer parents are ready for kids to go back because we get tired from all the long days of activities. The novelty has worn off and the kids are bored and pushing buttons. Also for you with the extra time at home in the summer intensifies it all!
Just start taking deep breathes and counting the days - its working for me lol
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Post by gdgross on Aug 14, 2008 15:42:17 GMT -5
Sounds to me like it would be nice to get her dad on board with some of this.
Can you have a conversation with him?
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Post by Kim Possible on Aug 22, 2008 6:28:33 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be FABULOUS? And the right way to parent??? But sadly....not gonna happen. He has NO problems with her Yeah, and he's not allowed to talk to me. At least not in a civil manner. His gf won't allow that
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