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Post by blazinheart on Jan 21, 2008 20:24:55 GMT -5
In a perfect world maybe so Blaze, but there is no such thing. I have already informed my parents that if something drastic should happen and they need care that they will have to go to a nursing or an assisted living home. I won't put my kids' needs on the back burner. My circumstances are different than most though, I have two kids with autism, and one if not both will be living with me forever. I'm only one person and my kids come first. Finding, somewhere, a while back, family became much less important in our society. In most countries, with most people in this world, you would have your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, close family friends all working together for each other. There is community, and that means something in the rest of the world. There is no daycare, only family, there are no nursing homes, only family. Somewhere in our past, our nation put materialism before family. And you can see this happening more and more in the places where materialism has spread. We have been sold a false dream, the American dream that tells us we'll be happy with material wealth. But we're not a happy people. We're a people with a bankrupt economy, with debt up to our ears, with rampant divorce, broken homes, screwed up children, the list goes on and on. And why are we like this? Because we decided to put the pursuit of happiness above love and family. I know our society is fucked up, but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop believing in family, in what I believe is right.
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Post by goods on Jan 21, 2008 20:28:52 GMT -5
blaze do you really believe all that shit about other countries and how they see the US? Why not ask some of our non-US members what they think. For the most part the US is like it or not the leader in many things.... AND many countries want to be like us.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 21, 2008 20:37:35 GMT -5
blaze do you really believe all that shit about other countries and how they see the US? Why not ask some of our non-US members what they think. For the most part the US is like it or not the leader in many things.... AND many countries want to be like us. Yes, goods, I do believe it because i've travelled the world, and believe it or not, people look at us disdainfully for the most part. They see us as shallow, materialistic pigs. I kid you not. And goods, news flash, we are shallow, materialistic pigs. Our country is full of fat, in-debt, spending addicted, fast food eating sheeple. People around the world used to look up to us because of the amazing freedom we enjoy and represent. But that freedom is gone, it's been replaced with materialism. We have enslaved ourselves to the almighty dollar.
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Post by goods on Jan 21, 2008 20:49:16 GMT -5
Well Blaze now I understand why no one wants to pick up their lives, leave everything and everyone they know and move to the US. Just think what an imigration problem we would have.... And before you go off, it is not only Central and South American imigrants moving here.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 21, 2008 21:28:54 GMT -5
Well Blaze now I understand why no one wants to pick up their lives, leave everything and everyone they know and move to the US. Just think what an imigration problem we would have.... And before you go off, it is not only Central and South American imigrants moving here. Immigrants come here to get a taste of our brand of freedom, but they soon find out that our culture is one of self indulgence and the sad part is, those people that came here for freedom learn only how to become a slave to materialism. There are people that I meet abroad that tell me to take them back to America with me. I always tell them the same thing. "You don't want to come to America, it's not nearly as grand as you've been lead to believe". If I actually thought that bringing someone to America would improve their life, I would advise them towards coming here. But being a citizen of a developing country is better than being a slave to our capitalist system.
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Post by Saucy on Jan 21, 2008 23:07:35 GMT -5
In a perfect world maybe so Blaze, but there is no such thing. I have already informed my parents that if something drastic should happen and they need care that they will have to go to a nursing or an assisted living home. I won't put my kids' needs on the back burner. My circumstances are different than most though, I have two kids with autism, and one if not both will be living with me forever. I'm only one person and my kids come first. Finding, somewhere, a while back, family became much less important in our society. In most countries, with most people in this world, you would have your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, close family friends all working together for each other. There is community, and that means something in the rest of the world. There is no daycare, only family, there are no nursing homes, only family. Somewhere in our past, our nation put materialism before family. And you can see this happening more and more in the places where materialism has spread. We have been sold a false dream, the American dream that tells us we'll be happy with material wealth. But we're not a happy people. We're a people with a bankrupt economy, with debt up to our ears, with rampant divorce, broken homes, screwed up children, the list goes on and on. And why are we like this? Because we decided to put the pursuit of happiness above love and family. I know our society is fucked up, but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop believing in family, in what I believe is right. i agree with your statement that we're slaves to materialism. but america is the only place in the world where theres a middle class. In other countries, youre either dirt poor or hella wealthy.
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Post by goods on Jan 22, 2008 8:15:59 GMT -5
Blaze said:
Blaze said:
Ok so which is it? You say that people hate America, yet they want you to bring them back here. AND you tell them that America sucks ass. (paraphrased) Are you sure it isn't you that hates America?
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Post by rocko on Jan 22, 2008 9:19:33 GMT -5
I never said ALL childcare workers were bad. I chose not to put my children in another person's care until they were old enough to tell me if something happened. I moved around and worked in daycare in different cities and states. Only ONE of those facilities followed the rules set forth by the state. My classroom followed to rules because that is part of who I am.
I don't think all women can stay home with their children. I received enough child support to make it. We ate tons of dinners with my parents, we didn't have cable tv, and we did have state insurance after their father got out of the military.
Once The child support stopped I started working and taking the children with me to work. They have an area here to play inside and outside. I am lucky enough to have family that owns two businesses. So I am able to do all of that.
I understand people have to do what they have to do to make it.
For me daycare and nursing homes were not an option. If/when uncle scotty (quad) begins to need more help than what we can possibly give ( I am not a nurse-I do give baths and deal with cath. and all that, but above that I wouldn't have a clue) he may have to get a home health nurse. If home health isn't enough then a nursing home may become our only option. If I can take a leave of absense and keep him home then I will.
That is all my personal choice. You can make yours. No need to try to flame me or try to tear my story apart. It is what it is. I never said anything negative about you putting yours in childcare.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 22, 2008 9:20:57 GMT -5
And we're the ignorant ones? Playing bingo? You think that's what the elderly want to do with the rest of their lives? Play fucking bingo, have a group of orderlies order them around, walk up and down linoleum hallways all day long? And they'd rather do that than spend the remainder of their lives with their loved ones, watching their grandchildren grow up, eating dinner with their family, spending what's left of their lives with the ones they care about? I am actually going out to bingo with my grandma tonight, and YES, it IS what she wants to do, I take her every week, and we talk some too. She doesn't WANT to live with family. She likes her own space, and although she doesn't like when some of the ladies get gossipy about aches and pains, she likes the services offered at her senior high rise. Granted, it isn't called a "nursing home" but some services are offered, and she would rather go to a nursing home than a family member - we spoke at length about this when she first when into the high rise. She LIKES that there are long hallways she can roam in when the weather is cold. She LIKES that they have a gym for her (something none of her family can afford), and people to talk with at all times. She also likes that she can have visitors or come and go (like to Florida) without worrying about disrupting a home. She doesn't WANT to live with family, so to assume that family is the best place is ridiculous! That's the same justification I hear parents spew when they drop their little ones off at daycare. Oh, my 2 year old needs the socialization, he's better off with strangers all day than with his mommy. Daycare is actually advancing my child, it's good for him. Lies, lies and more lies. This is also not a lie, and I am sure, considering how many posts I haven't been through yet, been thoroughly disputed. If not, I will be HAPPY to address this AT LENGTH with you sometime. Early childcare is a particular interest and extremely educated area for me. Shey
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Post by sheyd on Jan 22, 2008 9:54:58 GMT -5
Ok, a couple of quick points. Blazin, you travel abroad. This COSTS. I would LOVE to travel abroad, but I have children to support, and can't afford it. This rather makes your "scorn materialism" viewpoint rather... hmmm.... I also know and care about many people who DO rely upon the social welfare system. They would LAUGH at any person in your position (traveling abroad) who says that it is better to live that way (if you can call it a living). It would be great if our society did and could pay for people to stay home with their kids (and why only mothers, btw? do dad's not count?) Unfortunately there isn't enough money/food stamps/assistance to go around. We no longer live in an agricultural society where you can grow your own food and send your kids to school in flour sacks like my grandma did, and have no car because the school is only two miles from your farm. Life costs, and until you have lived - IN AMERICA - and raised children yourself on NO INCOME, or even SEEN someone do it - I suggest you don't have the education or experience to really understand. That is ok, we can't experience or know everything there isn't enough time, but that makes your viewpoint less worthwhile.
As for the quality and worth of daycares, unfortunately there ARE some bad ones out there - but there are also MANY parents with poor parenting skills, and even more good parents with low early childhood education. This translates into good parents thinking their children either don't need to know a skill by that age (with their child then being behind and them not realizing it or getting help) or parents expecting their children to be able to do things they just developmentally are unable to do.
Since you obviously have very little early childhood education - let me give you one example. Parents will look at their two year old who is about to do something they KNOW they shouldn't do - the child looks at the parent, grins, and then does it anyway. A parent or caregiver with some education realize that at two a child has no impulse control. That means they weren't being deliberately disobedient, they simple hadn't the brain development to stop them from doing what they knew was wrong. Without that education, even a good parent might punish the child, not realizing the best way to handle it would be short simple explanation of what was wrong -preferably by pointing out the RIGHT way to do things rather than emphasizing the wrong - and distraction. "We write on paper, honey, like this, not on the walls. How about we go play with blocks instead?"
Caregivers with early childhood education are TRAINED to respond this way, and have that patience because they are PAID to (and would lose their jobs if they didn't). They also have more patience with kids because they don't have them all day. I challenge ANYONE to sit with a two year old day in and day out without break and say they can do that type of positive talk consistently well. And yes, studies prove that this type of stuff works. But kids are FRUSTRATING. Most studies which show home care better than daycare are outdated, and found to be rather poorly done. GOOD parents with TIME and MONEY are better than daycare. That means they still have resources, and have the education, and the time to work on socialization through other means. Poverty is one of THE largest causes (and yes, I MEAN causes) of poor parenting. Parents don't have the resources to utilize the skills they have, and the stress alone reduces parenting skills. Poverty leads to depression, and if you want studies on that, I am happy to provide how much depression affects parenting - just doing a paper on that now. Parenting is a tough job when you DO have good support, and time away, and people to talk to about it. Being a stay at home parent is HARD, and unless you are good at it, you can do as much (or MUCH MUCH more) damage than any daycare could. I really applaud those who can do it and do it well (I have one friend who is EXCELLENT - home schools and her house is like Better Homes and Gardens - don't know how she does it!).
Get educated on early childhood, get experience with it, get educated on poverty in the US, then we can talk about this reasonably.
Shey
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Post by freckles on Jan 22, 2008 11:05:32 GMT -5
I think they charge way to much in Health care
$90.00 for one asprin or $900.00 for a bandaid at the emergency room
seems a bit high
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Post by lumpy on Jan 22, 2008 11:22:27 GMT -5
Blaze said: Blaze said: Ok so which is it? You say that people hate America, yet they want you to bring them back here. AND you tell them that America sucks ass. (paraphrased) Are you sure it isn't you that hates America?
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Post by wizer on Jan 22, 2008 12:03:09 GMT -5
Our country is looked at disgracefully all over the world because of our shallow, materialistic mentality. We're viewed as pigs that put our material consumption above all else. How do I know this? Because I've travelled all over the world. blazin', they think this BECAUSE you have traveled all over the world. With ignorant opinionated poorly educated individuals like yourself setting the example, of course they are going to think that.
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Post by cdngurl on Jan 22, 2008 12:40:33 GMT -5
living in poverty is not the way i want to raise my child. sorry. Sorry to jump in here.. but from what I understand, one of the biggest predictors of childhood maladjustment is poverty. That is one of the largest reasons children of divorce fair so poorly -- not only because of split parents, but largely because of poverty that often results. While it is great that mom can be home with her two year old, collecting a welfare cheque (which here in Canada barely pays for food and shelter), the two (or three or more) of them are living in the worst neighborhoods in the city, with the worst crime rates. I do agree that there's a lot to be desired with day care. I was lucky enough to have my mom there to care for my daughter - and I would have gladly taken my mom into my home before she died - had she not refused and then deteriorated so quickly. Not everyone has those options however. I just think assuming people dump off their children for selfish needs is a little too simple IMHO.
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Post by goods on Jan 22, 2008 13:04:48 GMT -5
I would bet that MOST Mom's would much rather be home spending time with their children. The idea that they are just dumping them off so they can go out to make enough money to buy a plasma t.v. is just ludicrous.
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