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Post by freckles on Jan 23, 2008 11:04:05 GMT -5
I changed my Title of this thread From * The Great Love and Joy of Islam To: Islam that has been Perverted by Evil Because someone said that not all People who follow Islam Are Killing Women and Children and Babys and Men too because of Petty offenses A Lot of People that Follow Islam are Nice. tinyurl.com/23j2af
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Post by Phoenixx on Jan 23, 2008 11:56:40 GMT -5
Freckles, you need to seriously consider your sources before you post things like that. For the last time, seperate idiocy from a RELIGION. Posting titles such as this one would be the same as me finding some propoganda against Christianity and slandering CHRISTIANITY itself for it.
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Post by goods on Jan 23, 2008 12:04:20 GMT -5
I guess it is good that I can not see tinyurl at work.
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Post by Phoenixx on Jan 23, 2008 12:06:17 GMT -5
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Post by freckles on Jan 23, 2008 12:55:21 GMT -5
Everytime they are on the News they are Killing or Murdering someone
Or giving them hundreds of lashes
Because of something petty
That says something
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 23, 2008 15:04:02 GMT -5
Freckles, you need to seriously consider your sources before you post things like that. For the last time, seperate idiocy from a RELIGION. Posting titles such as this one would be the same as me finding some propoganda against Christianity and slandering CHRISTIANITY itself for it. No phoenixx, you simply can't compare Chrisitanity in our country to Islam in Muslim countries. Maybe you need to do a little reading. Muslim countries such as Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Nigeria, Syria are all governed by Sharia law. If you don't know what Sharia law is, you should look it up. It's a ruthless, intolerant form of dictatorship in which the radical religious leaders impose their beliefs on the entire population of the country. What they say goes. Obviously you need some examples of this because it seems you're unaware of what really goes on in the lives of most muslims in this world. Here's a couple instances that have happened just in the past few weeks. The human rights violations in the countries that impose Sharia law are beyond imaginable to people in the U.S. I suggest reading up on it. And keep in mind, most of the muslims in this world are subject to Sharia law. So Freckles is fairly accurate in his generalization. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stmnews.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080120/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_forced_divorce_3www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/11/30/2007-11-30_sudanese_call_for_teddy_bear_teachers_de.html
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Post by freckles on Jan 23, 2008 21:34:39 GMT -5
Which would you choose ?
Example: You are walking and a Big Wind blows up and Rips your Clothes off you and your Compainion ( Male & Female, Not Married, Unrelated)
So you run Naked into
1. A Christian Church full of People for Help
2. A Islam Muslem Church for Help
Which place would you recive Help
Which place would Kill you ?
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Post by kittenhart on Jan 23, 2008 22:23:19 GMT -5
neither....Me and sweets would just run off and be naked together outside away from all religious intolerances.....
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Post by Phoenixx on Jan 23, 2008 22:35:32 GMT -5
Freckles, you need to seriously consider your sources before you post things like that. For the last time, seperate idiocy from a RELIGION. Posting titles such as this one would be the same as me finding some propoganda against Christianity and slandering CHRISTIANITY itself for it. No phoenixx, you simply can't compare Chrisitanity in our country to Islam in Muslim countries. Maybe you need to do a little reading. Muslim countries such as Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Nigeria, Syria are all governed by Sharia law. If you don't know what Sharia law is, you should look it up. It's a ruthless, intolerant form of dictatorship in which the radical religious leaders impose their beliefs on the entire population of the country. What they say goes. Obviously you need some examples of this because it seems you're unaware of what really goes on in the lives of most muslims in this world. Here's a couple instances that have happened just in the past few weeks. The human rights violations in the countries that impose Sharia law are beyond imaginable to people in the U.S. I suggest reading up on it. And keep in mind, most of the muslims in this world are subject to Sharia law. So Freckles is fairly accurate in his generalization. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stmnews.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080120/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_forced_divorce_3www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/11/30/2007-11-30_sudanese_call_for_teddy_bear_teachers_de.htmlFirst of all Blaze, I know what I am talking about. I am Muslim myself and have studied my own religion (in additon to others, but thats another story). I also know Sharia Law. Sharia Law does state some rules which may seem as overly harsh to a society which follows something else (i.e. The West) but some practices in Western Countries seem at least odd to different cultures. Secondly, the generalizations that Freckles is rather used to trotting out are often articles from places such as FOX NEWS, who are not that well known for their accuracy in printing anything different from the society its "journalists" ( )live in. Sharia Law (just like any other law) is not followed by all Muslims. Quite a few Muslims do follow it. Sharia Law is the 10% of the Quran which dictates how disputes should be solved. Downloading an anti-Islamic paper and then being sentenced to death for it is NOT part of any Quran I have read thus far, so as far as I'm concerned (and as far as many learned Qulumah - experts in Islamic teachings- are concerned) this is a basic pervertion of rules laid out. It is NOT a "ruthless dictatorship" so whereever you got your source from perhaps you should refrain from reading those things and use more accurate texts? It makes me so angry when people point to the Middle East and other extreme countries and scream "THATS ISLAM. ISLAM IS BAD BECAUSE THEY OVER THERE ARE ACTING THAT WAY!". When Catholic extremists blow up abortion clinics and kill people inside I do NOT blame christianity but rather the insane few who choose to pervert a religion. There are TWICE as many muslims in China as there are in the Middle East. DO NOT confuse CULTURE with RELIGION. Perhaps YOU should do some reading. And Freckles, it shows your extreme ignorance when you dont even know that Muslims worship in MOSQUES not in churches (as well as at home). And when you know someone who has been killed by people running out of a MOSQUE you can make statements like that. In fact, with attitudes like the one you have (and so many others) why would I even ask for help? They'll take one look at me and label me a terrorist, a person subjected to a "ruthless dictatorship", a murderer, a bomber, the list goes on and on. Ironic how some places fail in the one thing they usually take pride in - being open minded. I'm done.
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Post by freckles on Jan 23, 2008 22:59:46 GMT -5
So you think The Leaders of Mosques
That do those Bad things are Evil are at war with God
Just like any Christian that Blows someone up Anywhere
Like I do ?
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Post by ionysis on Jan 23, 2008 23:47:17 GMT -5
Good grief. Thank goodness for Frecks and Blazin, otherwise I might forget what prejudiced, ignorant bigots all you bible bashing, brain dead yanks are.
Oh dear - that wasn't a generalisation I just made was it?
This thread should be deleted - not just because it is offensive but also because it is a monumental load of moronic bullshit.
Moderator???
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 24, 2008 0:32:54 GMT -5
Good grief. Thank goodness for Frecks and Blazin, otherwise I might forget what prejudiced, ignorant bigots all you bible bashing, brain dead yanks are. Oh dear - that wasn't a generalisation I just made was it? This thread should be deleted - not just because it is offensive but also because it is a monumental load of moronic bullshit. Moderator??? Oh look everybody. Look at how much more tolerant ionysis is than me and Freckles. She must be so much more enlightened than us morons cause she thinks that the leaders of Islam teach peace and tolerance and give rainbows and cotton candy to all of it's followers. Of course there's no such thing as Sharia, there's no oppression or gross human rights abuses perpetrated by the governments of the largest muslim countries in the world against women. No, it's all rainbows and cotton candy. And of course, ionysis would have you know that the largest muslim nations in the world are known for their tolerance and great abundance of human rights and freedoms. Yes, ionysis will paint you a pretty picture of what it's like to live in the largest muslim nations in the world, to be a woman in these nations or a free thinker, or someone who believes in freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of anything. Fact is, these freedoms that you and I take for granted are simply not allowed in the world's largest muslim countries. New flash these stories are real: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stmnews.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080120/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_forced_divorce_3www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/11/30/2007-11-30_sudanese_call_for_teddy_bear_teachers_de.htmlDid you read the links ionysis, or do you want to continue with your unsubstantiated, condescending liberal rant? Cause i'll go 12 rounds with you sista. You ain't got nothing that I ain't seen honey.
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Post by ionysis on Jan 24, 2008 0:56:59 GMT -5
Blazin, I AM a women and I DO live in a muslim country.
I live in a Muslim country which is tolerant to other religions, has a sensible and effective system of government, which has virtually no crime and which is constsntly legislating to move towards great equality for its residents. Is is perfect? No. Are there abuses here, yes. But there are in the States too.
My point is not that abuses and atrocities are not committed in Muslim countries or by people who purport to be followers of Islam. My point is that not ALL Muslims are terrorists, not ALL Islamic countries are evil or backward or repressive and if you'd actually read the Quran (which I have) you might just grasp the fact that it is not the religion itself but the deliberately machievelian interpretation of the religion by extremists which is the foundation of the current political and social problems we face in the world today.
Look at Africa as a comparison. Over the last 100 years Africa has seen more barbarism, bloodshed, abuse and horror than pretty much any other continent in the world. Most of those countries are ostensibly Christian. Is it the fault of the religion that this has happened? Or is it the fault of greedy individuals who have perverted and systematically broken down their countries political and economic backbone for their own ends?
A war against Islam is not the answer just as a war on Iraq wasn't. Educating and humanising society is the only practical or effective way of moving towards tolerance and negotiation rather than fundamentalism and war.
But I don't expect you to see that because you always do prefer to engage in confrontation and conflict in the certain belief that your view is the only view don't you Blazin.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 24, 2008 1:38:11 GMT -5
My point is that not ALL Muslims are terrorists, not ALL Islamic countries are evil or backward or repressive . Please show me where I ever said that all muslims are terrorists or that all islamic countries are evil and backward? Please, at least do me the favor of pointing out where I said these things so that I can try to figure out why you're pointing this out to me as though this is my assumption. Do I sound like an ignorant hick living in the swamps of Louisana? I've travelled throughout North Africa. I know that there are certain "muslim" nations that are more tolerant than others, Morocco comes to mind. But for the most part, muslim countries are incredibly oppresive, brutally so. It seems that you think that the trend within Islam and the countries it rules, is that they are becoming more moderate, more tolerant. I personally don't see it. In fact, I see just the opposite. I see more and more small countries adopting Sharia law. I see more and more oppression and extremism within the governing bodies of Islam. I see intolerance within the Islam spreading. And I see it first hand, in Africa. My parents have been travelling to Africa for 40 years. I don't think it's a fair assessment to call most of the countries in Africa Christian, not at all. Africa, for the most part is first and foremost a continent that observes tribal tradition. The African people honor their tribal heritage far above any religion. The Rwandan genocide had nothing to do with religion, is was tribal. The killing happening in Kenya right now is based on tribal affiliation. But the genocide taking place right now in Sudan is pure religious cleansing by muslims. How ionysis, in these fruitful, progressive modern times you describe, can such atrocities occur? The stats range anywhere from 200,000 to 500,000 black non-muslim Sudanese killed by the Muslim government of Sudan. And I think that it goes without saying that if greater Islam had it's way, Jews would be cleansed from the earth. I haven't even touched on the brutal oppresion of certain muslim regimes in western Africa, maybe some other time. So this isn't just isolated incidents of terrorism that Islam is known for. This is widespread intolerance signified by religious cleansing. And it's growing. I don't believe in a war against Islam. I don't believe in a war against any religion. But I do think it's important for the whole world to recognize what's happening within Islam. You've got imams in Canada trying to get the govenment to enact Sharia law within the country. That's something to take notice of. So I suppose ionysis, that the picture that I see of Islam is a bit different that the one you see.
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Post by ionysis on Jan 24, 2008 2:14:53 GMT -5
I don't disagree with anything you say in your last post.
What I do hate is seeing the title of this post juxtaposed with its content. I think it is offensive - and you can see by how Phoenixx felt that it IS offensive to her as a Muslim.
I do not believe it is the religion which is the root of these issues - religion has always been used as a justification and a tool of control. And I do not ever believe it is appropriate to attack somebody else's religion in one sided blanket statements.
And whilst you may be correct that there are human rights violations in Muslim countries there are also human rights violations in many other countries that are not Muslim - the indefinite detention of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay by the US government without trial or conviction for example....
Disseminating awareness of the issues and encouraging debate and discussion is a good thing - in my view the only way to avoid violence is through the different sides coming to learn about and understand each other. But biased and prejudiced generalizations are something different altogther and that is why I don't like this foundation of this thread.
And I didn't like this either.
No phoenixx, you simply can't compare Chrisitanity in our country to Islam in Muslim countries. Maybe you need to do a little reading. Muslim countries such as Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Nigeria, Syria are all governed by Sharia law.
If you don't know what Sharia law is, you should look it up. It's a ruthless, intolerant form of dictatorship in which the radical religious leaders impose their beliefs on the entire population of the country. What they say goes. Obviously you need some examples of this because it seems you're unaware of what really goes on in the lives of most muslims in this world. Here's a couple instances that have happened just in the past few weeks.
The human rights violations in the countries that impose Sharia law are beyond imaginable to people in the U.S. I suggest reading up on it. And keep in mind, most of the muslims in this world are subject to Sharia law. So Freckles is fairly accurate in his generalization.
This is not the first time you have jumped all over another poster with your great steel capped boots without pausing to consider them or their circumstances - in fact it seems to be becoming your defining characteristic.
Discussing human rights abuses in China was my first thought to make my point in my last post but I know your experience of Africa, and quite a lot else about you, as I have read almost every one of your posts for the last 12 months, that is why I cited it as an example. Unlike you I do take the time to at least try to get to know people before I start insulting their intelligence.
You seem to consistently assume, in your arrogance, that other posters are invariably less well informed than you are. Clearly in this case, as in others, you were mistaken. I suggest you take the time YOURSELF to understand situations beore you make assumptions about another poster's comprehension of the facts in future.
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