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Post by Phoenixx on Jan 24, 2008 6:05:43 GMT -5
To be honest, Blaze, I have always found your views rather misinformed. Now I find them purely disgusting. What are you basing you statements on? On news reports? Oh yeah, because that can never be wrong.
I never said there was no such thing as Sharia. I said it has been perverted. Just like the Geneva Convention has been perverted by many so-called enlightened countries. Your posts in this thread (as usual with quite a few of your other posts) are riddled with bullshit statements. Point out to me where in the Quran (chapter and verse) where this "dictatorship" is written out. Perhaps you've never read it? OK, explain to me which school of thought follows what? Which methodolgy are they using? Are they going by Sunna, Fiqh (Classical or otherwise), Hadith, or Ijima? Where they Sunni or Sharia? What are they following? Hanafi, Hanbali? Maliki or Shafi? or perhaps they were Twelfers?
Oh, no clue what I am talking about? Then how do you justify your statements?
For the record there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims. Just because a few crazies decide to make crazy does not mean that they follow the exact rules, as you can see from my questions above, there are rules. Many, many rules. I just asked you some very BASIC questions of some aspects of Islam. Perhaps you can answer them for me?
Cheers.
By the by, I am a woman and I have lived in a Middle Eastern country and I've visited quite a few.
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Post by freckles on Jan 24, 2008 8:52:58 GMT -5
If a Christian or Christian Country does bad things
Christians are the First People to Condem Them in every way
If People do Bad in the name of Islam
And other People point that out
Instead of Condeming those bad Acts and the People that do them
They are Mad at the People that Point that out
Not the Person/Persons doing the Bad in the name of Islam
Why is that ?
I am courious
P.S. This is what we Christians are seeing
Tell us Diffrent
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Post by ionysis on Jan 24, 2008 12:22:20 GMT -5
Ok Freck, let me try to explain it.
If a group of people did something in the name of Christianity - like killing a gay man or blowing up a clinic that performed abortions and killing lots of doctors and nurses, that would be bad. But as a Christian yourself you wouldn't like it if someone said to you "what an evil religion Christianity is - look what those Christians do." because you'd say "No, it isn't I'm a Christian and I don't kill people or blow things up." And you'd be right.
By making broad statement about Islam being an evil religion and Muslims being bad people you are insulting Muslims who don't agree with blowing things up and killing people. Not everyone who is Christian believes the same things and not everyone who is Muslim does either.
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Post by rocko on Jan 24, 2008 12:32:48 GMT -5
In most instances, if someone posts something here that is offensive you can ask them in a PM to modify the title or remove the post and they will. Notice I said in MOST instances because some people prefer to cause battles and offend people.
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Post by goods on Jan 24, 2008 12:39:49 GMT -5
Nazis = "Christian Fascists" Al Qaeda = "Muslim Fascists"
Both groups use religion to push their own Fascist agenda.
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Post by ionysis on Jan 24, 2008 12:42:53 GMT -5
This is the soapbox.
If it has been on another thread it might have been more appropriate to do that but this is the board where debates / differences of opinion are meant to be publicly expressed - isn't that the whole point?
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Post by rocko on Jan 24, 2008 13:07:48 GMT -5
It is to debate ideas. It is not for personal attacks.
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Post by freckles on Jan 24, 2008 13:51:30 GMT -5
Nazis = "Christian Fascists" Al Qaeda = "Muslim Fascists" Both groups use religion to push their own Fascist agenda. Nazis should Burn in Hell Forevor and Ever in a Blast Furnace They say they are Christians They are Demons
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Post by freckles on Jan 24, 2008 13:53:29 GMT -5
It is to debate ideas. It is not for personal attacks. I hope I am not attacking anyone Except People who Cut Off Peoples Heads Give them Hundreds of Lashes with a Wip And Kill them Because of Petty Offences God has a special place for People that do that
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 24, 2008 14:03:29 GMT -5
To be honest, Blaze, I have always found your views rather misinformed. Now I find them purely disgusting. What are you basing you statements on? On news reports? Oh yeah, because that can never be wrong. Right, so you claim that I'm totally skewing the facts to support my opinion. Right. So, the Muslim governement of Sudan hasn't been systematically killing hundreds of thousands on non-muslims in Sudan? So there are no blatant and oppresive human rights violations taking place right now in the most predominant muslim countries? So the links I provided are lies? I'm making this all up. I've never been to northern Kenya, to the refugee camps set up there that house the thousands that have fled the murderous muslim Sudanese government. According to you phoenixx, the only killing and brutal oppresion by Muslims is done by a few crazies with bombs. Ridiculous, who are you trying fool? And then you compare the violence that happens within Islam to the violence that happens within Christianity. And that's just an absurd comparison. Christians aren't commiting genocide. Christians aren't ruling nations with oppressive, brutal regimes. Christians weren't marching throught the streets celebrating the killing of 3000 Americans in the attacks of 9/11. And as Freckles pointed out, Christians are ready and willing to hold each other accountable for their crimes. So phoenixx, please read through my last post. Ionysis managed to agree with it. Maybe if you would take some time to read it, you would see that i'm not claiming that Islam is all evil or that all muslims are terrorists, hardly. I've met far too many friendly and peaceful Muslims in northern Africa to call them all evil. In fact, when I travel through northern Africa I stay with muslim families. But you, phoenixx are reacting, you are being defensive rather than rational. I have presented a point of view and backed it up. I have provided links as well as personal experience. So now, you can either continue to react from your emotional response or you offer some intelligent debate.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 24, 2008 14:55:46 GMT -5
I don't disagree with anything you say in your last post. This is not the first time you have jumped all over another poster with your great steel capped boots without pausing to consider them or their circumstances - in fact it seems to be becoming your defining characteristic. Ok, i'll admit, I came down rather hard. But only because phoenixx started in with drama with Freckles. She started making sweeping assertions and generalizations as an emotional response rather than a rational one. So I figure she needed a little of her own medicine. So I gave her some. Anytime you want to talk about living conditions and human rights abuses under communism, I'm game. Hell, if you wait a few years, we'll all have first hand experience right here in the good ole u.s. of a. I try not to insult anybody ionysis, truly. But I also realize that Americans are thick headed, they run their mouths and say nothing. Especially American women. And more often than not, you have to get their attention before they hear anything you say. Usually it ends up being a lost cause, but every now and then, I do come across an intelligent, well composed woman who is actually capable of rational, objective debate. And i'll also admit that I can be arrogant from time to time. But i'm not an arrogant person. I do often assume that I am better informed than others because usually, with Americans, that's the case. See, in America, people think they know a lot about life and things of the world because they read books and go to college and watch t.v. So there's a lot of truly arrogant people here, but they're also ignorant, and that's a bad combination. If I hadn't started travelling the world when I was 18, after being raised by a 2 parents who have travelled the world, you wouldn't see me here talking about things like poverty, human rights abuses, oppresion, dictatorships, genocide, or religion. I wouldn't be talking about them because I wouldn't know anything about them. But Americans love to pretend like they actually know what they're talking about, eventhough they have no idea. Stupid Americans that know nothing of the world call Bush a dictator, they cry about human rights abuses taking place in our country, they claim we have poverty here, they whine about our oppresive government, sexual discrimination or religious zealotry. When the fact of the matter is, our generation has never truly experienced any of those things. Yet we're always yammering on and on about them like we're fucking experts. So yes, I admit, I can be arrogant and at times condescending. But it's usually more of a reaction to ignorace than anything else. Still no excuse, I'll try to be better.
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Post by Saucy on Jan 24, 2008 15:19:54 GMT -5
i love this site. i went over to gooseland and theres not as much hype as HUG THAT BABY!
at least here on hugthat, everyones honest.
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Post by Phoenixx on Jan 24, 2008 17:53:35 GMT -5
I'm in the middle of something rather important so I'll keep this brief. I'll agree with the title change. That's ALL.
Blazing, I asked you to justify your sweeping statements about Islam with facts. Does Islam actually preach these things Muslims are accused of? In my research- no. Therefore, I dont find it ISLAMIC practices to kill, abuse, etc. I find them to be culture stemming from Ignorance. Those news articles just state things that happened under the name of Islam. Doesn't actually answer any of the questions I asked, which by the way, you didn't answer a single one of.
And for the record, some Christians did commit mass genocide. What do you think the Crusades were? Conquering new lands under the thinly veiled excuse of spreading religion? Perhaps. Finally (for now) Blazing, plenty of Muslims died in 9/11 thing. So if Islam is bad, why would Muslims kill other Muslims. Aren't we all in cahoots to take over the world? Oh my bad, maybe thats propganda.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 24, 2008 18:37:53 GMT -5
This is becoming rather tiresome phoenixx as you refuse to face the facts. You refuse to read the articles, therefore disscussing the issue with you is meaningless. Please read my posts in their entirety before responding. Those news articles show what the religious leaders of Islam are demanding of it's followers. Pretty simple. next. Blazing, I asked you to justify your sweeping statements about Islam with facts. Does Islam actually preach these things Muslims are accused of? In short, yes, a large, possibly the largest sector of Islam does preach oppression and killing in the name of their religion through Sharia law and Jihad. Don't forget, the links that I posted show that it is indeed the religious leaders, the teachers of Islam that impose Sharia law on it's people. It is the religious leaders of Islam that govern these brutal regimes. Do your research phoenixx, I'm not going to do it for you. The president of Sudan has imposed Sharia law on his country, which happens to be the largest country in Africa and the 10th largest country in the world. The message is clear. Abide by Sharia law or die. And hundreds of thousands have died. Millions of muslims live under Sharia law. A law that is imposed on them by their religious leaders, the leaders of Islam. Sharia law is incredibly oppresive, brutally oppresive. And Sharia law is spreading like wildfire. We're talking about a law that says if you speak badly about Muhammed you are subject to death. That's not something I want spreading thoughtout this world. We're not talking about what happened 1000 years ago, we're talking about what's happening right now within Islam. We're talking about what is pertanent now. And once again, you're reacting from emotion, not rational thinking. Never did I say that all muslims are in cahoots to take over the world. That's your emotion talking, not your intellect. If you want to continue this discussion phoenixx, start producing something other than knee-jerk emotional reactions. Because it's starting to become clear that you lack objectivity and favor false accusations.
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Post by wizer on Jan 24, 2008 18:41:47 GMT -5
I know nothing about Muslims or Islam, so I will just say, "Hey Everyone!"
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