Why can't I just be normal?

[freckles]

Oct 29, 2008 15:35:47 GMT -5 shattered said:

First of all -- thank you to each and every one of you for your input.

My gut is to agree more with some posts or sentiments than others, but what is so great is that different viewpoints challenge me to really search within myself.

Just a few points:

-- This is just a statement for the record: When I cry, the French guy acts like I am doing it on purpose. Jules, you said you find it manipulative when people cry. Let me just say, when I cry -- *I don't do it on purpose*!!!! OMG, if I could not cry, I wouldn't!! I am emotional, and I cry easily when I am hurt. It is not something I can control (believe me, I've tried!). When he sees me cry, and gets *even madder* at me for crying, I am just in a state of disbelief.
Maybe there are people who can cry on command and do so to manipulate others. But I think that unless there is iron-clad proof of that, there is no reason to think the person in tears is doing so.

-- The fact that he yelled, and did so for so long, is actually the least of my concerns. It is how he takes all these cheap shots that concerns me. How, even after I tell him that I undestand his point of view, that I never meant to offend him, and I apologize sincerely, and it still makes not the slightest impression on him. Instead, he just comes up with one crazy thing after the other, making up stuff out of thin air, like I don't care about his feelings (right after I apologized to him), like insisting, insisting, insisting that I expect him to cry (when I have said emphatically over and over and over again that in no way did I ever hint at that -- but that *I* cannot stop crying simply because he orders me to), and so on and so on. That's the part that I know is fucked up, and, if he reacts like this in general, then it might qualify as emotional abuse, certainly harassment.

-- As for the pattern: He contined it last night. He called me three hours before the appointment with the lawyer to tell me he didn't want to go anymore because his cousin has a friend who has a friend who has a dog who has a friend...you get the idea... who thinks that the French guy should see a different lawyer.
At first I just didn't know what to say, and when he pushed me to say something, I said, "Well, I guess I am shocked that you are calling me three hours before the appointment to cancel just because someone's friend thinks you should see a different laywer."
He *immediately* started yelling, going on a full-out rant, telling me that I don't want him to be informed, that he has right to be informed, that he had a bad experience with some lawyer several years ago and did I want him to be ripped off again, and he kept repeating he has a right to be informed -- this from the same man, who, when he got his current wrong visa, I asked him over and over and over again to contact a lawyer or the embassy to find out what rules and regulations or limitations his visa entails, and he simply didn't do it!!! Which is why he arrived not knowing what kind of visa he had, and got the big suprise from the customs agent two weeks ago and now has to leave the country on Nov. 3.
He had the nerve to tell me I didn't want him to be informed?

To make a long story short, we did, in misery, end up going to see the lawyer together after all, and the French guy loved him, and was all happy and bouncy afterwards, thanking me for coming with him.

I couldn't really be happy.

Because: This (just one of many examples of what happened last night) shows me that my mother was right: There is something wrong with his mental faculties. He doesn't *intend* to be an asshole. He doesn't *think* he is acting crazy -- but that doesn't make his actions any less crazy!!

He is like a little child.

Today, he was supposed to call me at work and let me know what happens (he as going to call this bakery in Virginia, the owner of which had said he would sponsor him) and let me know what is going on.

It is 4:40 pm EST and I haven't heard a peep. Odds are when I do finally hear from him, some friend of his cousin's will have another friend with yet some other idea, and we're going to start all over again.

And his craziness is not just about visa stuff. It's in general.

He had told me so often how he can't wait for me to meet his various cousins, and how excited they are to meet me. Every single time I told him I felt the same way.

Once he arrived here, it took two full weeks to finally meet a cousin & wife for desert. (I had said many times before that I would be happy to meet his cousins anywhere, anytime, I'd be happy to take the bus or Metro out to Virginia, etc, but he never came up with any plans expcet that one desert, and then one dinner with other cousins the next day. Fine.

What is NOT fine, in fact what is FUCKE-UP is that last night he said he didn't get to see his cousins enough because of me (he sees them every day all day, Mo - Fri, plus last week he wanted to see them alone at night without me and spend the night, and I said, sure no problem, and he did it, and I thought everything was cool.

Now he says he canceled plans with them for me. When I asked him to name examples of when he cancled with them for me, he couldn't give me an example. When I asked him why he and I didn't see more of his cousins together, he said the thought I didn't want to.

OMG!!!!! I asked him whether he'd forgotten about my *frequent* suggestions that we see his cousins,and he refused to anwer.

So, he is either acting in bad faith, or an imbicile.

I think it's the latter.

I know now this can never work and I am heartbroken and dismayed beyond words.

Everyone is Diffrent

He is just Immature Brat

Not saying that is Good or Bad

If you know that, then just let it go in one ear and out the other

Thats all there is to it



P.S.

Plus French People are Diffrent from USA People

Diffrent Places = Diffrent Raising

[sheyd]

You are absolutely right - you have your eyes open and are very smart. So - don't worry about whether or not he wants to leave, show him the door. You DESERVE to have the consistency and not be accused all the time. Better you found out now. I hope the fun and romance was worth the ride, though?

[hoodieprincess]

WOW...

I am kind of in shock.

I know this is easier said than done but I am trying to take my advise that I am giving you and apply it to myself as well, that's the only reason I am giving it to you...

...I know you're heartbroken and I am sure it's tearing you up inside. Try to remember that though you've invested yourself in this a fair great deal, it's not been years and years you've been dating this man or waiting on him to get his act together. Try to remember that you had a fantastic trip (and he paid for the tickets so it wasn't out of your pocket! {yes, that's evil but oh well!}). I know he's staying with you and intamacy isn't something to be taken lightly here. It's hard not to get more involved and attached when you're so close all the time. But, remind yourself his true colors seem to be shining through. When you start to get sad about the good, remember the bad and how much that seems to outweigh the rest. You can do what you need to in order to take care of you. You deserve to. You don't owe him anything and frankly if he was that worried about not seeing his cousins, I'd make the offer that he can go stay with them. Yes, it will bring more yelling but he seems destined to. And, it's your house. It's your terms there. He seems to be forgetting that.

My phone is on every night, all night. Call me if you need to.

[Mel (cherry)]

Hmmmm can I add anything to what hoodie and shey have said? I dunno, hard acts to follow

I agree though that you shouldn't just view it as all bad because it turned out that way. You were brave enough to take the leap (and believe me, many of us shut down and didn't risk leaping for a long long time), you had a blast and got to see some cool stuff, and you learned a lot about yourself and others and what is and isn't acceptable to you.

I'd say you came out a winner despite Monseiur Asshat.

[hoodieprincess]

Oct 29, 2008 15:48:28 GMT -5 shattered said:

I have been thinking things over, and realized in this particular case my worries are actually not irrational insecurities for the most part, but I am reacting to inconsistent, unfair, worrisome behavior on his part.

Very good of you to see that! I am proud of you for catching that because now that you see that much, it will make you remember that you have some stregnth worth fighting for!

[sheyd]

And I am really glad you are getting that counseling too - make sure you talk about ways to shut someone down who starts to pull that kind of stuff. Sometimes having a plan of action or a standard phrase can help with that shock factor... You shouldn't ever have to take that!

[Mel (cherry)]

Yep forewarned is forearmed.

[shattered]

Oct 29, 2008 15:56:33 GMT -5 sheyd said:

You are absolutely right - you have your eyes open and are very smart. So - don't worry about whether or not he wants to leave, show him the door. You DESERVE to have the consistency and not be accused all the time. Better you found out now. I hope the fun and romance was worth the ride, though?

Shey, (and Hoodie and Mel) I truly wish I could say the fun and romance were worth this pain, but to me, they are not.

I had truly fallen in love with him and was just beginning to think that this might actually work out between us.

So much happened between us these past two weeks -- so much emotional and physical intimacy, and it was really meangingful. It was by no means just a fun fling.

I wish it had been.

[amola]

Oct 29, 2008 15:42:11 GMT -5 Mel (cherry) said:

I am so sorry hun.................

Want me to come down with the crew and give him a good old fashioned butt whoopin?

can i come too? it's been a while since i've been part of a good butt whoopin!!!!

[Mel (cherry)]

Can't have a good butt whoopin without our KS chapter

Hang on shattered, we won't leave you to go thru it alone!!!!

[hoodieprincess]

Oct 29, 2008 16:27:05 GMT -5 Mel (cherry) said:

Can't have a good butt whoopin without our KS chapter

Don't forget the Colorado chapter either! I have some pent up agression and would love to take it out on someone!

[JimB]

Oct 29, 2008 16:17:42 GMT -5 shattered said:

Shey, (and Hoodie and Mel) I truly wish I could say the fun and romance were worth this pain, but to me, they are not.

I had truly fallen in love with him and was just beginning to think that this might actually work out between us.

So much happened between us these past two weeks -- so much emotional and physical intimacy, and it was really meangingful. It was by no means just a fun fling.

I wish it had been.

Hun, my first post-divorce relationship was the second most intense one of my life, my first being my first true love. It won't always be like this. Everything you're experiencing now is a function of the moment you're in, and the moment he's in. He's clearly not right for you in this moment, and if he's not Mr. Right Now, he can't be Mr. Right.

I'm sure it's been meaningful and intimate in a lot of very good ways, but you don't have a personal quota of meaning and intimacy in your life. You can have more, and from better sources.

I do honestly believe you have every right to pat yourself on the back for being able to see clearly that this isn't right for you. You're in a self-aware enough place that you're able to call his craziness into question, which in itself means you've made tremendous progress. Think how easy it would have been just to fall back into the old patterns....

You'll be back riding high again before you know it - you're too fabulous not to.

[hoodieprincess]

No worries, hun. I know that this wasn't just a fun fling for you. Just the same, you will at some point have to try to get past it for what it was. I am glad you got to feel the emotions of falling for someone again. That is such a scary leap to make and I am proud of you for doing it. But, he's not mature enough to deserve you it seems and that's not your fault. One day, when you're a little further out and have some seperation from this all, you can start to appreciate the good without it feeling haunting to you. Maybe what you two need is some time and some space. Maybe he'll clearly see where this went wrong because he doesn't seem to right now. I think he's taking you for granted all the while you've tried to open your heart up to this guy. It hurts, and it stings and that just means you did it right. I know, that sounds crazy. But, if you were going to try, at least you did it whole heartedly. And, now you have to try and grow and heal some more. I know you let your walls down and your guard and that is very commendable. You have to make every effort to learn from it now and try and appreciate the good with the bad. I'm so sorry this is so hard...I know, I feel like I am walking path too. Re-read the posts you sent to me just the other day...Maybe they'll help at least just a little.

[shattered]

He just called me.

He said he took his stuff from my place today and is not coming over tonight. He says he feels trapped -- that I won't let him see his family.

Said he needs time, and he'll call me in a few days.

He was self-righteous and kept saying some unfair things, but this time he was not yelling, he spoke calmly and mostly respectfully.

He said that my ranting at him last night in a restaurant (which I did, and which is utterly stinky, I know, but I was so horrified by how he had treated me and acted, that I just flipped, no excuse but that's the reason) made him so uncomfortable and that he needs time to be alone.

I said fine, I understand. I was calm. I did not cry. I said I was sorry for how I acted last night, but I need him to understand that he also owes me an apology for how he acted -- the yelling, the accusations, the mixed messages, etc. He said he had no clue what I was talking about that he ever accused me of anything etc.

He said if he knew that I would act like this he never would have come.

I said that i will give him a few days, but that we need to fix a time to talk. That I can't just wait around with no idea when he will call me.

So we agreed on Saturday afternoon.

Then he said we would talk only by phone.

I said that I'm not forcing him to talk again, but if we do, it needs to be in person, not by phone.

He said OK.

Then he said it has to be a coffee shop, because talking in my apartment would be unfair to him.

I said I simply cannot have such an important, possibly very painful, conversation on a little stool surrounded by total strangers.

I suggested meeting on a bench in a nearby park and he agreed.

I knew this was coming. I KNEW it.

Still, I am in shock.

I can't believe it.

I feel he was very unfair to me about many things, but I realize I, too, acted like an idiot. Like a child. WHY did I have to rant at him in the restaurant last night? WHY couldn't I just control myself?

I am going home now. I want to be home when the shock wears off and the tears start flowing.

I am dreading going into my bedroom and seeing the bed where we made love.

[Mel (cherry)]

I feel he was very unfair to me about many things, but I realize I, too, acted like an idiot. Like a child. WHY did I have to rant at him in the restaurant last night? WHY couldn't I just control myself?

Oh Shattered, you cannot control his reactions. Even if you had not done something like that, you cannot change who HE is. Perhaps you responded incorrectly, like we all do when our vulnerability buttons are pushed, but absolutely DO NOT take the blame for HIS issues.

There is more going on with him than meets the eye. I hesitate to throw around any accusations though, so Im going to stick to the basics and say he hasn't been completely honest with you, that is clear. Proceed with caution and most of all love and protection for YOURSELF and by all means talk to him at the park, but don't allow him to manipulate you or make you feel broken.