lies, nagging, and other hazardous activities

[lumpy]

damagedgoods said:

dude you didn't read past the first line?


epic fail!

I read the whole article. But one black man touting the praises of Reagan doesn't mean that they weren't disenfranchised by the Reagan administration.

[goods]

Give me an example where Reagan disenfranchised Blacks.



What I saw and experienced was very different, and I thank two friends for that opportunity, Gloria Toote and Henry Lucas. Both were very close to the President.

I campaigned for Reagan in 1980, and in 1984 I served as State Chairman of Illinois Black Republicans for Reagan/Bush. That year, I and five other conservative blacks placed, at our own expense, a full-page ad in Jet magazine presenting Reagan’s very commendable record on civil rights and economic opportunity for blacks. The President received 10 percent of the black vote.

I was fortunate enough to make many visits to the White House. The Reagan I met was comfortable around blacks, aware of the difficulties we faced, and committed to building a more inclusive Republican Party and leveling the playing field.

Criticism of Reagan from black spokespersons is motivated by ideology, not an objective review of policies adopted during Reagan’s eight years in office or the status of black Americans. Reagan increased funding for civil rights enforcement, his Justice Department brought more suits to enforce voting rights in its first three years than the Carter administration had in four years. And of course, Reagan signed legislation making Martin Luther King Day a national holiday.

Blacks did well under Reagan, too. The black middle class started its strong drive upward during the Reagan years, as reliance on government became less of an option, and economic growth and prosperity helped everyone’s boat rise. The Reagan tax cuts were a boon for black businesses and entrepreneurs no less than whites, and millions of black Americans went to college, became homeowners, and started achieving the American Dream.

The leaders of most black advocacy groups refuse to see or admit this. They are still liberal, and so they blame Reagan for their loss of political power and relevancy. As well they should.

Reagan was sincerely committed to ending racial discrimination and helping blacks advance socially and economically. It wasn’t a show. On November 26,1984, the President wrote to me, “Unfortunately, my crusade against bigotry and prejudice isn’t often heard above the political rhetoric--I appreciate all your help.”

My friend Henry Lucas, the first black member of the Republican National Committee, recalled earlier this week how President Reagan once asked him (in Henry’s words) “how to proceed to bring about equality to African Americans.” Henry replied, “we must do everything we can to level the playing field.” Several years later, Reagan still remembered the conversation. After saving Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee, by approving a $50 million grant, Reagan asked Henry, “are we leveling the playing field?” Henry replied, “yes, Mr. President, we are beginning to level the playing field.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lee Walker is president of The New Coalition and senior fellow at The Heartland Institute. His email address is [e-mail].

[lumpy]

Just to be clear, I'm not calling Reagan racist. If anything, it would probably be more accurate to call him a classist. Affluent folks of all colors loved Reagan. Lets face it, Trickle Down Economics didn't "trickle down". Even George Bush Sr. called it voodoo economics. The Reagan Administration was no friend of the poor and a large percentage of blacks during his administration were poor. That's why I said Clinton was shopping for disenfranchised black votes when he campaigned at Baptist churches. The Republican Party (IMHO) lost a lot of these voters during the Reagan Era which (again IMHO) saw the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

[goods]

First of allow Bush said "voodoo economics" while he was running against Reagan in 80. Secondly it was BEFORE Trickle Down Economics were in place. Third, the whole rich got richer and poor got poor is a complete myth. Everybody did better! EVERYONE. Period. I was of age then, I worked then. There was more opportunity for everyone then. I remember the 70's the gas lines.

I guess you are saying this is a lie:
"Blacks did well under Reagan, too. The black middle class started its strong drive upward during the Reagan years, as reliance on government became less of an option, and economic growth and prosperity helped everyone’s boat rise. The Reagan tax cuts were a boon for black businesses and entrepreneurs no less than whites, and millions of black Americans went to college, became homeowners, and started achieving the American Dream."

What exactly would it take for me to prove this... would you like me to go through miles of stats?

AND saying what you have... that Reagan THE REPUBLICAN disenfranchised blacks and that's why Clinton was "reaching out" to them is a bit off. Why if Reagan disenfranchised them, would Clinton THE DEMOCRAT have to go shop them? Wouldn't they already be running from Republicans into the Dems arms? Come on!

[goods]

Hey Lumpy... if you will read this book, I will buy it for you.
www.amazon.com/Wrong-Race-Democratic-Partys-Buried/dp/023060062X
Just send it to me when you are done. Deal?

[lumpy]

damagedgoods said:

First of allow Bush said "voodoo economics" while he was running against Reagan in 80. Secondly it was BEFORE Trickle Down Economics were in place. Third, the whole rich got richer and poor got poor is a complete myth. Everybody did better! EVERYONE. Period. I was of age then, I worked then. There was more opportunity for everyone then. I remember the 70's the gas lines.

I guess you are saying this is a lie:
"Blacks did well under Reagan, too. The black middle class started its strong drive upward during the Reagan years, as reliance on government became less of an option, and economic growth and prosperity helped everyone’s boat rise. The Reagan tax cuts were a boon for black businesses and entrepreneurs no less than whites, and millions of black Americans went to college, became homeowners, and started achieving the American Dream."

What exactly would it take for me to prove this... would you like me to go through miles of stats?

AND saying what you have... that Reagan THE REPUBLICAN disenfranchised blacks and that's why Clinton was "reaching out" to them is a bit off. Why if Reagan disenfranchised them, would Clinton THE DEMOCRAT have to go shop them? Wouldn't they already be running from Republicans into the Dems arms? Come on!

Point by point rebuttal. Georgie Sr. was running against Ronnie Raygun and yes, he was attacking Trickle Down because it was a big part of Ronnie's campaign platform. The fact that he ridiculed it when he was running for the nomination and then championed it once he was Ronnie's running mate speaks to the hypocrisy of two party politics.

IMO, everybody did not do better. I think that's very far from the truth. Big tax cuts benifitted mostly the upper middle class and the rich. Combine that with huge cuts in welfare spending and you're taking from the poor man to pad the rich mans' pockets. I will say that my parents benifitted greatly from Reaganomics. They owned quite a bit of rental property and they pretty much had their retirements set for them due to those tax cuts. Trickle Down is a fallacy and a fairy tale as far as I'm concerned. My parents did not turn around and give a larger percentage of their income to charity. I don't think anyone did really. They rolled it into more Real Estate.

I'm sure the Black middle class did prosper under Reagan. That being said, how many folks do you think that affected? I don't have any numbers to present, but I'd have to guess that "The Black middle class" represented a fairly small percentage of blacks as a whole. (Perhaps 5-8% or so, which I believe reflects the percentage of black votes he recieved)

Yes, the poor and disenfranchised have long been the backbone of the democratic party. I believe the genius of Clinton was that he managed to play both sides of the fence. He was a moderate with some conservative leanings. I believe he wanted to cement his base (the poor and disenfranchised) while showing enough conservatism to steal some moderate Republican votes. Meanwhile, George Sr. was still selling "A Thousand Points of Light" and "No New Taxes".

[lumpy]

damagedgoods said:

Hey Lumpy... if you will read this book, I will buy it for you.
www.amazon.com/Wrong-Race-Democratic-Partys-Buried/dp/023060062X
Just send it to me when you are done. Deal?

Thanks for the offer, Goods. The only sort of political reading I truly enjoy (other than the newspaper) is satire. I dug Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and The Daily Show's America. I just can't force myself to read a book about politics that isn't funny. ;D

[goods]

George dissed trickle down BEFORE it was even implemented PERIOD Not after.
Trickle down DOES work. AND what the hell does charity have to do with it?
REAL WORLD EXAMPLE
The government stops trying to tax the rich to death, the rich get to keep more of the money THEY earned. The "rich" buy more things LIKE Yachts. The Yacht business starts to boom, they start hiring more and more "poor". The poor now have more money because they have jobs. That is what happened.. Guess what happened to those people that were building the Yachts when Congress instituted a "Luxury Tax" on the purchase of new Yachts. Those companies went out of business, those people went back to being poor.

Apparently Liberals think the way to help the "poor" is for government to give them money it takes from those who earn it.
Conservatives think the government getting the hell out of the way so businesses can be created and grow will give the poor an opportunity to earn their own money.

So Lumpy... "no" to the book?

[lumpy]

damagedgoods said:

George dissed trickle down BEFORE it was even implemented PERIOD Not after.
Trickle down DOES work. AND what the hell does charity have to do with it?

Because AFTER, he was Ronnie's Vice-President! Why would he diss the economic policies of his own administration? I believe he dissed it initially because he recognized it as an unsound economic idea. Many economists believe supply-side economics to be a strawman of sorts.

capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1115

And I appreciate the offer, but I tend to lose interest about half-way through. Either I agree with the author's opinion or I try and poke holes in it. I spose that's the point, though.

[goods]

sigh


I am finished.

[lumpy]

damagedgoods said:

sigh


I am finished.

You made some good points, big guy. Whether or not their feelings were valid, I do believe that most blacks would say that their interests were not served by Ronnie's administration.

Remember this little gem?

Rap Master Ronnie

Now let me hear a little base now Nancy?

Ok people, gotta get down.
Brother Ron Reagan has hit the ground.
Gotta believe he's the dude of the hour.
Got the glory, got the power.
Ronny can communicate, the cat can rap.
I even let Nancy sit on Mr.T's lap.
Love's the needy, loves them dearly.
Love to read graffitti if they'd only print it clearly.
He can break.
Men: Huh!!!
Reagan: He be trying to make the big box beat.
Trying to get those voters on there feet.
Get their consent, all I need is 10 percent.
Everyone:Say we want Ron
Reagan: The guy's pure sex.
Everyone:He's the man.
Reagan: Who signs your monthly welfare checks.
Ha! Ha!...Ha!...Ha!.Ha!.Ha!
Al: Ronny's the boss, he wears the pants.
Nancy: But that man of mine sure loves to dance.
Al: Got an open mind on civil rights.
Reagan: My youngest son grew up in tights.
Men: Check him out!
Reagan: He's heavy.
Men: Check him out!
Reagan: He's cool.
Lord have mercy on this 2nd paid fool.
Men: Ronny be a legend. Ronny be unique.
Reagan: Hard to even function with such mystique.
He gets down.
Men: Huh!!!
Reagan: Loves to take to town those dancing feet.
He be getting brothers off the street.
Hey! Least I've tried, If only more were qualified.
Everyone:Say we, want, Ron.
Reagan: The cat can swing.
Everyone:He's the man.
Reagan: Who's often seen at Burger King.
Uhh.. Ed.
Take it easy, Ed.
For Gosh sakes, Ed.
Debby Boone gave me that album personally.
Ed...
Men: Everybody's scratchin'.
Scratchin' for a wage.
Scratchabacha scratch.
From the want ad page.
Good time scratching.
Ronny got a plan.
And if that don't hatch.
Catch as catch can.
Reagan: Ok people, ease on through.
Rappin' Ron Reagan got cheese for you.
Got a big civil service that will hire your best.
And a volunteer army that will take the rest.
Men: Ronny be a fighter.
Ronny will defend.
Reagan: Lieutenant Bob Goodman is a personal friend.
Men: Ronny he be tough.
Ronny always wins.
Reagan: Dont need cardboard for my shoulder spins.
Reagan: He can freeze.
Men: Huh!!!
Reagan: He be trying to save those suckers' souls.
Trying to get those mothers to the polls.
Get their consent. I'll settle for just 2 percent.
Everyone:Say we, want, Ron.
Reagan: The cat's ok.
Everyone:He's the man.
Reagan: Who's got more juice than Jessie J.
Man: One more time Mr. President.
Everyone:We want Ron.
The cat's ok.
Man: Bring it on home, sir.
Reagan: Okay.
Light my fire black people, light my fire.
Give me your sweet jelly roll.
Turn on your love life.
Papa got a new saftey net for you.
Ya, Fritz, Jelly beans.

[blazinheart]

lumpy said:

You made some good points, big guy. Whether or not their feelings were valid, I do believe that most blacks would say that their interests were not served by Ronnie's administration.

Your talking about a group of people who hold up Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton as their leaders. I say that the majority of blacks in this country need to re-adjust their ideas of what's truly in their best interest if they're looking up to these fraudulent con-artists as their guiding lights.

[lumpy]

blazinheart said:

Your talking about a group of people who hold up Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton as their leaders. I say that the majority of blacks in this country need to re-adjust their ideas of what's truly in their best interest if they're looking up to these fraudulent con-artists as their guiding lights.

I don't know that they necessarily look up to those two as a group, but I agree that they are frauds. Particularly Sharpton.

[blazinheart]

lumpy said:

I don't know that they necessarily look up to those two as a group, but I agree that they are frauds. Particularly Sharpton.

Well, somehow these 2 bozos manage to remain powerful and influential. I doubt they would be able to if they didn't have fairly widespread support throughout the black community. Of course, I could be wrong.

[blazinheart]

lumpy said:

You made some good points, big guy. Whether or not their feelings were valid, I do believe that most blacks would say that their interests were not served by Ronnie's administration.

Another quick question for you lump. When have blacks anywhere ever felt not disenfranchised or as though their interests where being met? No president, other than Abraham Lincoln has done anything to garner widespread acceptance and appreciation from the black community. So i'm not really sure what you're trying to prove by claiming that Reagan didn't satisfy the interests of blacks. No politician has. I don't see why you need to come off as though you have your finger on the pulse of the black community, like you know when they are and when they are not satisfied.

The bottomline is, most blacks vote democrat because the democrats are good at telling them what they want to hear. The only thing the dems have offered more of to the blacks than the repubs is lies. The dems are good talkers. Just like their buddies Jesse and Al, they talk and talk but ain't good for nothin'. But they manage to fool the black community into supporting them, so there ya go.