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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 21:09:00 GMT -5
Illlnesses of the mind are every bit as severe and hard to treat, if not more, then purely physical ailments. You got that right.
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Post by genesplicer on Mar 15, 2008 21:17:13 GMT -5
I guess the underlying thought for me is people use these classifications as a crutch and an excuse to continue poor behaviors. We all have choices to make in our lives, the choice to continue to drink when you know it is a problem for you (such as my ex and many of my family memembers), and to use the excuse that you can't help yourself because you have a "disease" discredits not only yourself, but those who don't have a choice in their circumstances. IMO, for an active alcoholic (or other addict) there is a point at which they lose the ability to make a conscious choice not to drink. It's easy to look in from the outside and say that there is a choice, but it's not necessarily there. It typically takes a strong external force over an extended period of time, be it illness, family, job issues, etc to break the cloud of denial enough for someone with an active addition to realize that they actually have a problem and need help.
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 23:35:11 GMT -5
Good news! I reserved a mud wrestling ring for all of us. That's a much better way to solve this debate. Whew, those girls are out of shape. I think mud wrestling is the last profession they should be partaking in ...
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 23:37:09 GMT -5
Whew, those girls are out of shape. I think mud wrestling is the last profession they should be partaking in ... Wait, what? What does this have to do with alcoholism?
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 23:39:10 GMT -5
YOu tell me. You posted the darn pic. Is there a ghost on this thread?
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 23:40:46 GMT -5
YOu tell me. You posted the darn pic. The girl on the bottom is an alcoholic. I thought you knew that.
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Jaded
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 23:41:19 GMT -5
They probably both are but i didn't think that was the point you were driving home.
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 23:42:35 GMT -5
They probably both are but i didn't think that was the point you were driving home. It's about the only point I CAN drive home with you.
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Jaded
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Posts: 223
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Post by Jaded on Mar 15, 2008 23:43:59 GMT -5
Are you trying to relay some message here? lol
Stay on topic please.
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 23:44:54 GMT -5
Are you trying to relay some message here? lol Stay on topic please. Yeah, like you didn't hand me that one. Um...what were we talking about, I forgot.
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Post by Magalucia on Mar 15, 2008 23:49:24 GMT -5
It typically takes a strong external force over an extended period of time, be it illness, family, job issues, etc to break the cloud of denial enough for someone with an active addition to realize that they actually have a problem and need help. This is so true and part of what makes this disease so maddening for all involved but in particular for those who care for the alcoholic and see that loss of job, family, friends, home, even death is not enough to make them hit that elusive "bottom". Sometimes, sadly, that bottom is six feet under. I would not wish alcoholism on anyone, no matter how strong.
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Post by wizer on Mar 15, 2008 23:52:52 GMT -5
even death is not enough to make them hit that elusive "bottom". Um..how do you get any lower than death? I always thought that death was about as low as you could get? Unless of course, you speak to Freckles...
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Post by Magalucia on Mar 15, 2008 23:59:19 GMT -5
even death is not enough to make them hit that elusive "bottom". Um..how do you get any lower than death? I always thought that death was about as low as you could get? Unless of course, you speak to Freckles... Sorry, I was being a bit cryptic. Death of other caused by the alcoholic. Most would think that would jar anyone into sobriety. Sadly, not so.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 16, 2008 2:57:47 GMT -5
The whole point which needs to be reiterated in my view is that if an alcoholic could "choose" to stop drinking then he wouldn't be an alcoholic would he? Alcoholism is a pathological condition. Look it up.
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Post by wizer on Mar 16, 2008 9:53:38 GMT -5
The whole point which needs to be reiterated in my view is that if an alcoholic could "choose" to stop drinking then he wouldn't be an alcoholic would he? Alcoholism is a pathological condition. Look it up. You can't use "choice" as a support for your argument that alchoholism is a disease..because if could, then why not say cigaratte smoking, or, drugg abuse, or even suicide is a "disease" because otherwise why would people choose to do those things?
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