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Post by sheyd on Jan 29, 2008 22:13:57 GMT -5
I did note someone mentioning the "family bed"... but I do want to mention something else. The idea of "being independent" is an especially "American" one. MANY cultures are much more about interdependence, closeness, and family. Co-sleeping is part of that, in many instances. Babies being carried non-stop is another. Even those quotes from psychologists, etc - those studies - all reflect the idea of "separation". That is a great concept, but so is "togetherness". In many places, families all sleep in the same room. Is that wrong? Just because it is different? Or wait, are whole other cultures messed up?
Yes, there is some complications about sexuality. Which in a healthy environment aren't really complications. Parents/children aren't a sexual connection. For either. So it wouldn't be big deal if the daddy did have an erection IN THEIR SLEEP. It isn't as if he would be attempting to use it. Plus, what the heck, what guy does that? Slept with many guys in my life, never came across that phenomena. Not that they wouldn't maybe get one, but how often would you come across it and notice it?
You want my personal opinion? I LOVED sleeping with people my whole life. Had to sleep with my sister until I was 6, had a really hard time sleeping alone and would crawl into anyone in the bed of anyone in my family who would let me stay many nights after that. I did learn to sleep on my own, but I remember the trauma of it. I still don't understand why that had to happen. My daughters each have their own bed, and my 11 year old now sleeps on her own, unless a sister wants to sleep with her. Very rarely do the girls sleep with me, especially all night, but if they crawl in they get to stay for a bit.
Step-dad... Yes, Harry is in the bed when they crawl in. In fact, one morning when I was gone overnight my five year old crawled in when I wasn't even there. They love him, and trust him, and he sees them as his daughters. Yeah, there are some fears about possible accusations, but frankly I think the love shown in both directions is worth the risk. He sleeps in pjs, so do they. When I am home, they are usually on the other side of me, but snuggle time they like to have at least one of them in between.
Erf... I think they should try to fall asleep in their own beds, mostly so they know they CAN... but if they insist, I wouldn't worry about it. You are right, eventually they will just get awkward and WANT their own space. Kit (11) is just getting there now, at 11. Kori (8) still wants to sleep with someone, usually a sister. I see no prob with it.
Shey
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2008 10:55:23 GMT -5
I do them into their own beds at nigt unless there is some kind of special occasion (only one of the girls is here, or it's really late, something like that) but usually when i go to bed one, or both are in my bed.
Last night I asked them why they like sleeping in my bed and alice looked at me like i was a moron and said, "It's more comperbull, duh." I think that is more of an excuse, but it probably is more comfortable must to be close to dad. I don't know if they do this at their mom's since she has a live-in bf. In theory i wouldn't mind if they were (i trust him as much as a father can i guess) but i choose not to KNOW that they do.
i value your opinion and input very much shey.
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Post by wizer on Jan 30, 2008 11:01:10 GMT -5
I do them into their own beds at nigt unless there is some kind of special occasion That's doesn't sound right at all.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 11:08:30 GMT -5
this whole thread doesn't sound right....
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Post by wizer on Jan 30, 2008 11:16:22 GMT -5
He said he is "doing them in their beds". I hope that isn't Freudian.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 30, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Geez, guys, stop reading stuff into this! If they were boys, the issue wouldn't be about sexuality, it would be about toughening them up. If it were girls in with their mom, it wouldn't be an issue (lucky me) if it were boys in with their mom, people would freak. Here's the thing- they are our CHILDREN. It isn't about sexuality, it is about AFFECTION. In fact, it is these ridiculous fears OTHERS have about it BEING about sex that makes it uncomfortable, not the sleeping part. Last night my middle child slept in with her little sister. She doesn't like to sleep alone. Now, is that a bad thing? So why does it suddenly become bad when it is the parent? The parent who is the source of comfort and security? Frankly, upon my divorce I deliberately bought a king sized bed so I could accommodate children sleeping in with me if necessary. As they are growing, though, I can't fit them all, especially now with Harry there. I don't let them stay the night because once one makes it into my bed the others follow - and I don't sleep with that many crowding me. Once when they were sick, though, Harry slept on the couch so I could let two of them stay in with me. They are girls and I am a woman, so people don't freak as much (which is silly since many sexual offenders are actually the mothers). Read up about other cultures, it will open up your eyes that this is NOT some weird abnormality. In fact, if there weren't such pressures by people who are afraid, and also assume people HAVE TO learn independent sleeping (which both Erf's kids and mine CAN do) I suspect there would be more kids comforted in more parental beds. Parenting styles go in trends - never let them in your bed is the current trend IN THE USA. It isn't THE ONLY way to be. Sigh. Shey
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Post by Saucy on Jan 30, 2008 12:36:17 GMT -5
omg. i have permagrin.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 12:49:52 GMT -5
Shey I really think this is about erf replacing his wife with his daughters... AND NO NOT SEXUALLY. Sure when I divorced, my son was a toddler, it was nice to cuddle with him, fall asleep on the couch with him sleeping on my chest. Maybe I am reading this thread wrong but it seems to me erf went from the girls in his bed every night to now "special occasions". Why is the story changing. I've asked him a few times if he has run his fellow teachers, he has not responded. I don't think it is healthy for the girls or for him. I ran this by my PhD psychologist step-father last night and is first words were "That's not healthy." AND he also thinks it is more about comfort for erf than the girls. And he also thought like many of us that the fact he even posted this on here was more of an attempt to get approval for something he knows just is not right. That explains his responses to any criticism.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 30, 2008 13:06:51 GMT -5
You know, I wouldn't blame him for NOT talking to them about it - specifically BECAUSE of reactions like yours. It does NOT sound like he ASKS the girls to sleep with him, and if you had kids like his (and mine) you would realize it is more about capitulating to a kid's natural insecurities and desires to co-sleep than it has to do with REQUESTING them to comfort you. Kids are perfectly capable of wanting to sleep near a parent quite on their own. Yeah, if he had a wife who didn't want them in the bed, it would probably stop immediately. I don't think this is about replacing her, though. (Harry doesn't like them in overnight, either - and that DID have an effect for us, especially when they are sick.) Frankly, there are many COUPLES where BOTH parents are fine if kids sleep in, and even when I was married I often had kids in overnight (nightmares being the primary reason - although I co-slept with the babies during nursing, too).
I got PRESSURED by many parents that the kids should sleep alone, until I went to an early childhood education class. The instructor there had a more "worldwide" view, and realized there are many ways to parent. She actually helped me wean the kids to their own beds when it affected my own sleep, but also saw no problem if I wanted to continue to let them stay. Realize that your step-father, as educated as he is, is only one opinion, and that opinion is influenced by his current culture, and the US's current parenting trends as well. Ask him about other cultures - with his education he should be aware that his opinion is NOT the only one out there - and that "our" way is not necessarily the way it is handled world-wide.
My grandma had 10 siblings - they all slept 4 to a bed. The youngest always slept with the parents. (And yet the parents managed to have sex enough to have 11 kids!) Nowadays we have fewer kids, generally - less co-sleeping. Especially in times that are stressful, kids will look for comforting at the scariest part of their day - bedtime. It is totally natural for them to want to sleep with their parents. Most are just taught they ABSOLUTELY won't be able to - so they don't try. I doubt their wanting it has to do with his desire to replace his wife. Perhaps his being more tolerant of it is due to his own desire for comfort (I know I cuddle my kids for comfort) but as long as no one is harmed by it (and I don't see the harm) I can't understand why comforting each other is bad?
Shey
Honestly, I think there is too much paranoia about this stuff. Yeah, LOTS of psychologists don't like it (especially in the US). I think that is why so many people kick them out more - pressures from society.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 13:12:28 GMT -5
Shey, to you, what is the job of a parent?
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JC
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 13:22:41 GMT -5
goods, how can you be so judgmental about this?
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 13:39:57 GMT -5
Am I? I am saying (in obviously my opinion) I do not think it is healthy. More over I am saying that I believe erf doesn't think it is healthy either BUT posted here in hopes of approval. AND I believe it is more for his comfort than anything positive for the girls. AND that if as Shey says it is a capitulation to his daughter's desire, then I see ever more wrong with it... Coddling children especially preteens is never a good idea (IN MY OPINION). IMO a parent should be teaching a child to be independent, how to be an Adult... At different stages in life this takes on different tasks, feeding themselves, potty training, reading, self-control, riding a bike. The fact that so many people here apparently have no problem with a girl 8 and a girl 10 sharing their divorced father's bed is simple amazing to me. This is exactly why "kids" in their late 20's and 30's still live at home. I can tell you one thing. I was on my own at 18 and not one of my four siblings lived at home past High School EXCEPT for summer off of college. AND I can guarantee you that my 16 year old is completely capable to taking care of himself and could go out, get himself a job and a home and live on his own. AND if he has girl problems he is not going to go cry to his mom and jump in bed with her for the night.
The fact that he said he would let his daughter at 17 share his bed IF she was distraught is crazy. It is one thing to be a shoulder to cry on, it is one thing to offer hugs etc.... but is he actually going to hold his 17 year old daughter all night while they sleep to comfort her??? LIKE I SAID CUT THE FREAKIN CORD.
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Post by freckles on Jan 30, 2008 13:42:59 GMT -5
Kids are allways Your Kids even when Old I wish I had Kids
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2008 13:52:37 GMT -5
goods,
i did not speak to my colleagues because i respect them as teachers only slightly less than i respect them as parents. Most of the teachers in my building are quite young and either do not have children or have chilren who are very young. The ones that have done any study or introspection on raising children surely prescribe to the same "hands-off" mentality that you support.
How do you claim this is about me replacing my ex-wife? Where did you come up with that other than from your own projections of me? I rarely invite them into my bed is what I was getting at when you and doc made it sexual - note how you are the only ones concerned about the sexuality of this issue - Why are you so certain that a father sees his children (or vice versa) as sex objects?
My original concern was more of wondering when they would choose on their own to no join the famly bed - i realize that i worded my original post poorly.
As far as my job as a parent is to keep my children safe as well as to provide them with a foundation of diverse experiences that will allow them to be happy and successful human beings. I shudder to think what you see your role as.
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JC
Full Member
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 13:54:01 GMT -5
this whole thread doesn't sound right.... that is judgemental. we all know your position you dont have to keep throwing jabs. as far as him not answering whether or not he has asked colleagues about it, maybe it is because you are so transparently trying to 'catch' him in a 'aha so you do know its bad' moment. there are people out there who like you are so judgmental and closed minded that you cant see that your way of living is not what is best for everyone.
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