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Post by fluffypants on Jan 30, 2008 13:58:38 GMT -5
Am I? I am saying (in obviously my opinion) I do not think it is healthy. More over I am saying that I believe erf doesn't think it is healthy either BUT posted here in hopes of approval. AND I believe it is more for his comfort than anything positive for the girls. AND that if as Shey says it is a capitulation to his daughter's desire, then I see ever more wrong with it... Coddling children especially preteens is never a good idea (IN MY OPINION). IMO a parent should be teaching a child to be independent, how to be an Adult... At different stages in life this takes on different tasks, feeding themselves, potty training, reading, self-control, riding a bike. The fact that so many people here apparently have no problem with a girl 8 and a girl 10 sharing their divorced father's bed is simple amazing to me. This is exactly why "kids" in their late 20's and 30's still live at home. I can tell you one thing. I was on my own at 18 and not one of my four siblings lived at home past High School EXCEPT for summer off of college. AND I can guarantee you that my 16 year old is completely capable to taking care of himself and could go out, get himself a job and a home and live on his own. AND if he has girl problems he is not going to go cry to his mom and jump in bed with her for the night. The fact that he said he would let his daughter at 17 share his bed IF she was distraught is crazy. It is one thing to be a shoulder to cry on, it is one thing to offer hugs etc.... but is he actually going to hold his 17 year old daughter all night while they sleep to comfort her??? LIKE I SAID CUT THE FREAKIN CORD. Late guy to the party, but just want to offer reinforcements for you, goods. You are totally right here. I've seen both sides of this scenario, and I have seen it enough times to know that coddling and bed-sharing is not doing the kids any favors.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 14:01:22 GMT -5
hey guys guess what??
my sister is a surgeon at one of the hospitals in town. and oh my god i have seen e.r. and greys anatomy so many times
i think im ready to perform my first surgery!!!! any takers?
didnt fuckin think so.
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Post by fluffypants on Jan 30, 2008 14:06:54 GMT -5
Maybe I should elaborate and repost for JC......
Late guy to the party, but just want to offer reinforcements for you, goods. You are totally right here. I've seen both sides of this scenario. As a stepfather who raised a child from age 2 to nearly adulthood, and as a father of my own young child right now, who coincidentally has two older half-sisters with seperation and attachment problems of their own due to years overcoddling.
I have seen it enough times in 15+ years of raising children to know that coddling and bed-sharing is not doing the kids any favors.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 14:08:33 GMT -5
goods, i did not speak to my colleagues because i respect them as teachers only slightly less than i respect them as parents. Most of the teachers in my building are quite young and either do not have children or have chilren who are very young. The ones that have done any study or introspection on raising children surely prescribe to the same "hands-off" mentality that you support. Did you read anything I posted... how do you get to "hands-off" approach? Where did I say anything about you looking at your daughters as sex objects? I did say I thought you were using them to replace the emotional/physical emptiness left by your wife. That does not have to mean sexually. Again are you actually reading what I am posting? Your original postings led me to believe that they were in your bed everynight. Are you now saying they are not, if so why is this an issue at all for you? I already said I had no problem with kids jumping in their parents during the occasional thunderstorm . You shudder to think what I see my role as? AGAIN I think I explained what I think my role is... did you miss that or just skip over. Point is, you want approval for you having your 8 and 10 year old daughters sleeping in your bed. When I posted links supporting my opinions, you admittedly did not even read them saying that you Obviously you also skipped over my post about my own experiences with my son, step-daughter and siblings. I can only surmise this is because I was not providing you with the approval you were seeking.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 14:12:37 GMT -5
goods, i did not speak to my colleagues because i respect them as teachers only slightly less than i respect them as parents. Most of the teachers in my building are quite young and either do not have children or have chilren who are very young. The ones that have done any study or introspection on raising children surely prescribe to the same "hands-off" mentality that you support. Did you read anything I posted... how do you get to "hands-off" approach? Where did I say anything about you looking at your daughters as sex objects? I did say I thought you were using them to replace the emotional/physical emptiness left by your wife. That does not have to mean sexually. Again are you actually reading what I am posting? Your original postings led me to believe that they were in your bed everynight. Are you now saying they are not, if so why is this an issue at all for you? I already said I had no problem with kids jumping in their parents during the occasional thunderstorm . You shudder to think what I see my role as? AGAIN I think I explained what I think my role is... did you miss that or just skip over. Point is, you want approval for you having your 8 and 10 year old daughters sleeping in your bed. When I posted links supporting my opinions, you admittedly did not even read them saying that you Obviously you also skipped over my post about my own experiences with my son, step-daughter and siblings. I can only surmise this is because I was not providing you with the approval you were seeking. ARE YOU NOT READING?? his one of his initial posts stated that the girls only slept in the bed 75% of the time. and your advice doesnt matter because YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH OLDER CHILDREN SLEEPING IN BED WITH YOU. ok i think i spelled that out alright.
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Post by rocko on Jan 30, 2008 14:19:45 GMT -5
He doesn't have experience with older children sleeping with him because he made his child and his step child sleep in their own beds.
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Post by Saucy on Jan 30, 2008 14:21:36 GMT -5
i think this whole thread is getting blown out of context here. First off Erf asked this question: at what age is it not okay for a daughter to sleep in the same bed as her father? No one ever pointed out what age is NOT appropriate at all. Everyone just kept saying that "oh, my children come and cuddle with us here and there, blah blah blah," but failed to state the age. Goods said toddler age is when children should start sleeping on their own because it would be teaching children to be adults. Shey is saying that it IS healthy, if you look around at other cultures. but i think this opinion is rather vague, because she doesnt reference a culture, and if that cultural family are fortunate enough to have a spare bed for them to fall asleep on. (I know many mexican famlies who stay in 2 bedroom apts/houses and they have like 10 to a family so of course they have to co-sleep). With comforting your children, of course that is a given, children NEED that. But wanting/allowing your children to go to bed with you is not healthy at all considering if they do have their own bed. Teaching them NOT to be needy and reliant of somebody ALWAYS there to sleep with is highly important in raising your children. WHY? because what if one day YOU are NOT able to be there. Parents are going to raise their children however they want to raise them, regardless of opinions and what society deems appropriate. Who is society to say what is wrong and what is the right way of raising their own children, society doesnt have to deal with them being attached to mommy's or daddy's leg because they were never taught to be indepedant and self-reliable. Its the parents that deal with them. I was a needy person. attached. never raised to deal with shit on my own. i come out here with a husband, and BLAM! shit happens to me, what do i do? i run back home to mom and dad. I have realized that i have to face my demons I HAVE to learn to be independant. Luckily for me, i'm a pretty adaptable person. My parents NEVER taught me to be indepndant when i was younger. They raised me giving me what i ever want, do whatever i please. not saying that was a bad thing, nor bad parenting. I just wish they didnt raise me to become needy and attached. I had to learn the hard way (broken marriage/child) to be independant and on my own... The thing i would change about how my parents raised me and me raising my own child, who is aged one, well, first off, i would start him sleeping in his OWN bed. and then i would pretty much tell him all my trials and errors of Life, but that's giong to just have to wait till he could at least learn how to potty.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 14:22:15 GMT -5
and that was his choice to do so, it was not erfs choice, so therefore, the advice erf is looking for is not something goods can give him
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 14:24:19 GMT -5
Did you read anything I posted... how do you get to "hands-off" approach? Where did I say anything about you looking at your daughters as sex objects? I did say I thought you were using them to replace the emotional/physical emptiness left by your wife. That does not have to mean sexually. Again are you actually reading what I am posting? Your original postings led me to believe that they were in your bed everynight. Are you now saying they are not, if so why is this an issue at all for you? I already said I had no problem with kids jumping in their parents during the occasional thunderstorm . You shudder to think what I see my role as? AGAIN I think I explained what I think my role is... did you miss that or just skip over. Point is, you want approval for you having your 8 and 10 year old daughters sleeping in your bed. When I posted links supporting my opinions, you admittedly did not even read them saying that you Obviously you also skipped over my post about my own experiences with my son, step-daughter and siblings. I can only surmise this is because I was not providing you with the approval you were seeking. ARE YOU NOT READING?? his one of his initial posts stated that the girls only slept in the bed 75% of the time. and your advice doesnt matter because YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH OLDER CHILDREN SLEEPING IN BED WITH YOU. ok i think i spelled that out alright. my girls (8 and 10) will sleep in my bed every night if I let them, and I tend to let them about 75% of the time. I have been working under the assumption that they will decide when it isn't cool anymore. I don't see any problem other than societal perceptions. However, given my profession this could be a real concern. OK JC I did read past this a bit, but saying 75% is a lot. And I guess that "my girls (8 and 10) will sleep in my bed every night if I let them" really stood out. You are absolutely right I don't. Well except for my step-daughter, who when I first met her at age 4 had major separation anxiety. Could not sleep in her own room with the door closed, and if her mom or father would drop her off or leave would cry hysterically. When her mother and I started dating, then married that ended, she slept in her own room, she didn't freak out when her mom would leave the house. It took a few months, but as soon as the CODDLING of her mother and grandmother stopped so did the hysterics. I also don't have much experience with older children sucking their thumbs.
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2008 14:24:26 GMT -5
goods has a point - i did stop reading what he wrote.
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JC
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Post by JC on Jan 30, 2008 14:32:12 GMT -5
this will be my last post on this topic, because admittedly, it isnt the topic that bothers me so much, but the fact that people can be so closed minded to think that there way is absolute. i understand that people do things differently. i would NEVER tell somebody that the way they do something is wrong, but my way is right. im probably more enlightened on that because my sister and i do things completly different, and she has 3 kids the same age as mine, and you know what? her kids and my kids have a ton in common, and they are all GOOD, WELL ROUNDED kids. they have done many studies on what shapes a persons personality, whether nature or nuture. i could probably site a thousand websites to say that its nature, and a thousand that say its nuture. you can take a child who never slept in their parents bed, who turns out to be so dependent on everyone around them because they never felt truly loved by their parents. and you can take a child who slept with there parents anytime they wanted to, and went on to live an independent life, because they were so confident with themselves, a direct result of the love their parents showed them.
i have to say that this thread has really opened my eyes to some of the people on this board.
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Post by Saucy on Jan 30, 2008 14:37:24 GMT -5
this will be my last post on this topic, because admittedly, it isnt the topic that bothers me so much, but the fact that people can be so closed minded to think that there way is absolute. i understand that people do things differently. i would NEVER tell somebody that the way they do something is wrong, but my way is right. im probably more enlightened on that because my sister and i do things completly different, and she has 3 kids the same age as mine, and you know what? her kids and my kids have a ton in common, and they are all GOOD, WELL ROUNDED kids. they have done many studies on what shapes a persons personality, whether nature or nuture. i could probably site a thousand websites to say that its nature, and a thousand that say its nuture. you can take a child who never slept in their parents bed, who turns out to be so dependent on everyone around them because they never felt truly loved by their parents. and you can take a child who slept with there parents anytime they wanted to, and went on to live an independent life, because they were so confident with themselves, a direct result of the love their parents showed them. i have to say that this thread has really opened my eyes to some of the people on this board. you probably are/aren't referring to my posts, although i am curious to know what you mean by this statement. btw, dam if you do, dam if you dont. its that simple.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 14:49:00 GMT -5
Perhaps it is just my huge EGO but I think she is obviously talking about me. I like JC, however that doesn't mean we can't disagree and it also does not mean that I would not express my opinion even if I knew it was something she or anyone else disagreed with. I would also expect her or anyone else here to do the same. I think she felt that I was personally attacking erf, which I didn't intend to, I did intend to express my opinion that I did not approve of the situation he is involved in, so you could say I was attacking it. AGAIN, it was my opinion that I expressed, I tried to back it with links to professionals and my own experiences.
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Post by lumpy on Jan 30, 2008 14:52:08 GMT -5
Just to throw another wrench in things, I think both you and erf made pretty good cases for your positions. I agree with some aspects of both of your opinions.
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Post by goods on Jan 30, 2008 14:53:24 GMT -5
That's only because you are Bi.
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