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Post by lumpy on Mar 19, 2008 14:46:33 GMT -5
why do you feel guilt, JC? I don't feel guilty for being white. That being said, I can understand why an older black person might hold some of these opinions and resentments. I kind of equate it to the whole "lest we forget" point of view that many Jewish have regarding the holocaust. On one hand, how do you move foward without letting go of resentment? On the other, how do you insure that these injustices never occur again? It's a fine line.
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JC
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Mar 19, 2008 14:47:12 GMT -5
i dont even know where to begin with that... is it acceptable to complain about race relations because im white? not really. not at all. all day long, if a black person is wronged in any capacity, it is automatically because of their race. i am being racist.. there are only a few black people that i have ever met that didnt make me feel like i owed them something. that is not to say that all black people are like that, but that is the way i have been treated. if you say anything about it, the answer you will get around here is 'well look at all we had to go thru' yeah they went thru a lot.. i cant even begin to imagine it, but guess what? i didnt do any of it!
i do not believe that THIS is what Martin Luther King Jr. had in mind.
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Post by fluffypants on Mar 19, 2008 16:22:41 GMT -5
The speech did absolutely nothing for me. Because to me the real issue here is not so much about race, rather about Obama's judgment over the years. This is something he prides himself upon and has made it a staple of his campaign, yet I certainly don't see any indication at all of him using proper judgement. If anything, Obama has proven himself to be a man of terrible judgment.
1)If he does not have the proper judgment to avoid criminals like Rezko.
2)If he does not have the proper judgment to not endorse corrupt Illinois politicians that he knows is bad for the state and city
3) If he does not have the proper judgment while an actual sitting senator and prez candidate to disavow himself from a seperatist church when he knows that the pastor is an Anti-American hater and is going to give him problems down the road
4) And if he does not have the proper judgement to NOT throw his living grandmother under a bus in front of the entire country and embarrass her name (in a situation that really has nothing to do with her at all) over something that happened 30 years ago, while defending the true hater that started this entire fiasco.....
then how can we believe that he is going to use proper and good judgment as President of the USA? How can anyone really have any faith in this guy? Can you imagine him talking to foreign goverments and trying to determine which ones are lying, dealing with Ahmadidijad in Iran, or appointing a good, competent person to the Supreme Court? How is he going to react if he is President and he hears that there is corruption going on within his cabinet, or that things are not on the up and up?
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Post by JimB on Mar 19, 2008 16:48:11 GMT -5
4) And if he does not have the proper judgement to NOT throw his living grandmother under a bus in front of the entire country and embarrass her name (in a situation that really has nothing to do with her at all) over something that happened 30 years ago, while defending the true hater that started this entire fiasco..... Wow. Just....wow. If you'd care to quote the part of the speech in which he "defends" Wright, I'd be interested in hearing/seeing it, 'cause I missed it. Sounded to me like he was pretty firm in condemning what Wright said. Then again, never mind. One of the things I liked about the speech is it's not easily broken down into sound bites. You would really need to digest the entirety of what was said to grasp what he was trying to get across. You've clearly already decided he's not trustworthy, so you're not really open to his big picture message. Again, I'm not a proponent of squeaky clean people in the White House - not only do I not believe them, but I don't believe they can do that dirty job. I won't dispute your (somewhat shrill) examples of bad judgment, but it seems like you're trying to evaluate Obama in a vacuum, versus some ideal candidate. There are no ideal candidates - no one becomes a presidential front runner without getting their hands dirty somewhere along the way. I'll gladly listen to you more closely if you care to endorse a candidate who you think more trustworthy. (Your SO isn't a candidate, btw. ) And I hope his grandmother feels honored by the reverent way he spoke of her. I would.
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Post by lumpy on Mar 19, 2008 17:02:46 GMT -5
I don't think he threw his grandmother under the bus at all. He used her as an example. (One that I could totally relate to by the way) My Nonie was one of my favorite people in the whole world. Sharp as a tack, didn't take crap from anybody, as strong and as compassionate a woman as I've ever known. That being said, she was racist. She grew up in San Francisco in the late 20's and 30's. The area of the city that she grew up in used to be called Butcher Town. It's now known as Hunter's Point. When she was a kid, it was a low rent area of town that most of the Euro-mutts lived in. ( Mostly Scottish, Irish, and Swedish) Over the years, it became one of S.F.'s largest public housing projects. Anytime my mother and I took my Nonie into the City (usually to Chinatown for Dim sum) we'd hear a litany of reasons as to how "they" ruined the neighborhood, turned it into a drug-ridden scum hole, etc. I would never throw my Nonie under the bus, but she was as racist as the day was long. I think his point, as it relates to this issue, is that much racism is generational. It doesn't wholly excuse it, but that is a sad fact.
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Post by fluffypants on Mar 21, 2008 12:58:46 GMT -5
4) And if he does not have the proper judgement to NOT throw his living grandmother under a bus in front of the entire country and embarrass her name (in a situation that really has nothing to do with her at all) over something that happened 30 years ago, while defending the true hater that started this entire fiasco..... Wow. Just....wow. If you'd care to quote the part of the speech in which he "defends" Wright, I'd be interested in hearing/seeing it, 'cause I missed it. Sounded to me like he was pretty firm in condemning what Wright said. Then again, never mind. One of the things I liked about the speech is it's not easily broken down into sound bites. You would really need to digest the entirety of what was said to grasp what he was trying to get across. You've clearly already decided he's not trustworthy, so you're not really open to his big picture message. Again, I'm not a proponent of squeaky clean people in the White House - not only do I not believe them, but I don't believe they can do that dirty job. I won't dispute your (somewhat shrill) examples of bad judgment, but it seems like you're trying to evaluate Obama in a vacuum, versus some ideal candidate. There are no ideal candidates - no one becomes a presidential front runner without getting their hands dirty somewhere along the way. I'll gladly listen to you more closely if you care to endorse a candidate who you think more trustworthy. (Your SO isn't a candidate, btw. ) And I hope his grandmother feels honored by the reverent way he spoke of her. I would. 1) I didnt say anywhere in there that he defended him in the speech. What I meant was that he is defending him in general with his words and actions. Wont leave the church, says the guy is like an uncle to him, etc... 2) I am not all that fond of any of the candidates, but if I have to choose anyone it's McCain. He is the most moderate, and is a liberal conservative. Hillary is socialistic and Obama is far too liberal. Romney was too conservative. 3) LMAO! Silly man. You know VC would have no chance of running for prez given her associations. You and I would ruin her chances before the Iowa caucuses.
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