JC
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Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Mar 31, 2008 12:35:15 GMT -5
with what exactly jules? somebody's history? how does that affect me today? does it at all? should it?
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Post by jules on Mar 31, 2008 12:40:14 GMT -5
Yes, history does affect the present, and should affect one's attitudes regarding the present. That is why it is taught -- so it may be remembered. So we may learn from the past. So we can see how the present time has evolved, and so hopefully our actions in the present can positively affect the future.
What I meant is I wondered if you would like to trade lives with a person of color.
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Post by rocko on Mar 31, 2008 12:45:16 GMT -5
having a rebel flag in your sig...doesn't help your case. I know the flag isn't meant to mean what everyone thinks it means, but if everyone thinks it then the negatice emotions are attached.
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JC
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Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Mar 31, 2008 12:47:07 GMT -5
i understood what you meant jules..... yes we should learn from the past. i get that i really do.. but at what point has it gone too far? at what point, does a person get up and realize that their life is what THEY make of it, not something that happened to there ancestors.
i talk about this at length with my (jewish) sister. she doesnt act like i owe her anything. and im sure that what happened to them can be considered just as bad as slavery? and not as long ago either.
and no i wouldnt mind switching lives with a person of color.
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JC
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Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Mar 31, 2008 12:49:48 GMT -5
having a rebel flag in your sig...doesn't help your case. I know the flag isn't meant to mean what everyone thinks it means, but if everyone thinks it then the negatice emotions are attached. heritage not hate why cant i be proud to be from the south?
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Post by rocko on Mar 31, 2008 15:08:09 GMT -5
I know you know what it means, but at the same time other people don't realize it's true meaning and think you are flying a rasict flag.
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Post by gdgross on Mar 31, 2008 16:43:00 GMT -5
heritage not hate why cant i be proud to be from the south? I'm not from the south; I grew up in Los Angeles and still live here. When I see the confederate flag flown today, I think of slavery and racism and stubborn rednecks. Whether that's what is really represents or not, that's the impression I get from it. I think most of the people I know probably have a similar feeling about it. Maybe I don't know enough people from the south, however. You can choose to fly it or not, it's a free country after all. But be aware that it doesn't represent the same thing to everyone. It's offensive to many. I think you should be proud of your heritage. I'm proud of mine. But that doesn't mean I flaunt the stuff that offends people, like the fact that my grandparents were supporters of Germany in WWII, for example.
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Post by rocko on Mar 31, 2008 21:28:11 GMT -5
My point exactly.
It isn't about how JC feels about it, it is how it makes others feel. If it makes a HUGE percentage think she is a racist bad person instead of just a proud to be southern girl it hurts her image.
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JC
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Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Apr 1, 2008 14:00:28 GMT -5
this is a very hot button issue for me... i am pretty offended that i am being viewed as racist, when from where i sit, you guys are the ones being racist. i judge people by who they are, what they do, what they say, what there character is. you are the ones saying that a persons actions can be understood by their race. this isnt about somebodies pastor having a rant about white people. no... this is about members of my local government being able to say what they want about white people. and how am i to address this to my children? my three beautiful children. who will one day ask me why they are called crackers and honkies by the people who are supposed to be helping them. (our lovely local officials) and what is my answer to be? because there once was a time when they were treated unfair? my seven year old would look at me and say 'two wrongs dont make a right mommy' one of the very first principles i taught him. i know that there have been many a black mother being faced by their children, who were asking why they were being called n-gger, and why they werent allowed to go in that store, sit in the front of that bus. i understand that. but at what point does it end? at what point, do we stand up and say enough?
my mother took me to my babysitters house when i was an infant, and LEFT ME. like i was trash. i was there for days before anyone in my family realized. my mother did this often. she would come in our lives, seemingly out of nowhere, only to get tired of her duties as a mother, and once again she would ask someone to 'babysit' only to leave us yet again. so with your logic, because this is what happened in my past, then i am fully allowed to walk away from my children. i have a right to do it, because of what happened to me. sorry, it doesnt work that way.... i make my life what it is, not anyone else. my circumstances whatever they are, are in the past... it doesnt have to shape who i am today.
and, as far as the rebel flag goes, to me that is part of my heritage.. it wasnt even considered racist until the past 50 years or so. maybe i would say that YOU are the ignorant one, for assuming you know what it means, what it stands for...
i can understand, how, not being faced with the racial tension that i see everyday, against white people, you would wholly believe that black people have a right to be angry. i understand that. but i didnt do anything. i teach my kids, that everyone should be treated equal. i want a better world for my kids. i dont want this to harden their hearts, and make them hateful.. i want the cycle to end.
and i hope, that just maybe, you will try to put yourself in my shoes, and understand where i am coming from.
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Post by freckles on Apr 1, 2008 14:51:58 GMT -5
Any Color can be Racest
Just look at Obmas Preacher
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Post by JimB on Apr 2, 2008 9:09:23 GMT -5
I agree, as would most, I think, that if we must judge another person, character is far more important than race. But there is a difference between race and culture, and perhaps the difference is too subtle for folks like Freckles to understand.
Culture and race can be related, but don't have to be. There is a black American culture, and from where I sit, there's a wide range among blacks in terms of what degree they choose to participate in it. Some are fully immersed in their "blackness", while others seem more comfortable working to fit in with white American culture. It's up to them which way they want to go, and that's one of the things that makes this country great.
JC, I don't see your issues with the black people in your area as race-related at all. You, like me, simply don't care for people who embrace a victim mentality. Black people in America happen to have a history of mistreatment at the hands of whites. As a historical fact, that is now part of black American culture. As with any aspect of culture, individuals may choose to try to transcend that history, or they may wallow in it. (Of course, there are also many shades of gray in between.) I definitely have less respect for those who either choose to wallow in it, or simply lack the imagination to make their own choices, instead allowing their families or peers to decide for them. But I also recognize it as the kind of choice I'll never have to make, and I'm glad of that.
On the other hand, when I see a Confederate flag, I see a symbol of several things, most of them bad. For one, I see the symbol of reactionaries who are threatened by the emergence of black culture - in other words, institutionalized racism. For another, I see a symbol of people who revere a time in American history when our country was nearly destroyed, for all the wrong reasons. I won't deny that the flag and what it represents are a part of Southern culture, but neither will I apologize for the negative association I have with that particular symbol.
Whites don't need "equal rights" - we simply need to recognize, remember and utilize the advantages we already have. When white people fixate on the advantages given to blacks, whatever the reason, that is in itself embracing a victim mentality. Decide what you want, then pursue it by whatever means are at your disposal. That, in a nutshell, is America.
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Post by gdgross on Apr 2, 2008 11:16:39 GMT -5
JC, let me be clear:
I'm not calling you a racist, nor is anyone else in this thread. (I think)
What I am saying is that the symbol, which you consider a part of your heritage, is seen by most people outside the south (and perhaps many non-whites in the south, too) to represent the institutional racism of the past. That's why I told you the images it conjures up in my mind.
To me, it's like insisting that the word "gay" means happy and using it as such, even though the meaning of the word has changed from the original.
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Post by Phoenixx on Apr 2, 2008 14:03:16 GMT -5
How about just equal rights for EVERYONE?
;D
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Post by goods on Apr 2, 2008 14:31:39 GMT -5
How about just equal rights for EVERYONE? ;D That is just crazy talk!
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Post by rocko on Apr 2, 2008 14:36:11 GMT -5
JC, I wasn't calling you racist. All I meant was that many people will assume you are racist bc you are flying a symbol that people think means bad things.
JimB is a very well rounded intelligent person and his opinions are simular to mine on this.
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