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Post by rocko on Jul 1, 2008 16:22:48 GMT -5
I had three cats. There is not a single misplaced thread on my couch or on anything else in my house. I simply provided them with the correct place to scratch and clipped their nails. they did make dough on my legs and it didn't hurt because I kept their nails trimmed. I used human nail clippers turned sideways. It took all of 1-3 minutes per cat per week.
I did not have my cats declawed and I had ZERO issues with it.
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Post by shattered on Jul 1, 2008 16:41:56 GMT -5
Jim B said that:
"As for the other stuff, they are CATS, not people. Don't overhumanize them."
But this isn't about treating cats like humans, it's about treating cats like cats! And cats have claws. And their entire toes.
If anything, trying to make them fit your living room decor is trying to humanize them. Or turn them into robots. Maybe if you can't handle some scratches on your furniture, you shouldn't have house cats.
What about people who can't stand the shedding -- should they all constantly shave their cats naked or buy those poor absurd hairless cats? What about people who don't like meowing? Should they remove the cats' vocal cords? Animals, in this case, cats, are what they are. If you don't like the way they are, you probably shouldn't keep animals in your house.
Look, I'm not saying getting your cat declawed is the end of the world or guaranteed animal abuse. Like I mentioned on the other thread, I have friends who have several declawed cats, and they all seem truly fine and happy. But I also know there are other cats who do not adjust this well.
As someone else on this thread mentioned, adding clawed cats to a declawed household *might* pose a problem, and *might* be a legitmate reason to declaw the cat.
What I'm saying is that I think it's important that people who are considering declawing their cats should realize this is a pretty big deal. If at all in doubt, don't do it.
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Post by rocko on Jul 1, 2008 21:32:50 GMT -5
I thought declawing was for a cat that had problems. Like one that attacks people and what not. Not for one that happily massages his/her owners legs.
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Post by sheyd on Jul 2, 2008 8:37:54 GMT -5
You are lucky, then, Rocko - because that has NOT been my experience, or the experience of MANY people (hence all the relinquished cats in the shelter.) I actually spoke to the shelter person yesterday, and in the cases of those cats you mention, they even recommend declawing before giving a cat up. Of course, by then the cat is older and can't handle the surgery or the adjustment well at all (which is probably those cats you mentioned, shattered- older cats have a REALLY hard time adjusting).
Yeehaw, I want a HOUSECAT, not a mountain lion. It is a domesticated animal who has no need to kill wild things, nor fight with other animals of any kind - that is part of its heritage, not a necessity for its present life. NO shelter will give you a cat if you say you are going to let it be an outdoor cat. That is not healthy for a cat, and wild cats are killing off songbirds - almost decimated them in Wisconsin a few years back.
Btw - it isn't usually "a few" scratches. Cats, by nature, will mark (and scratch - if they have claws) repeatedly in the same areas. Whatever area they choose they will DESTROY.
As for trimming nails - yesterday the vet trimmed our little 5 week old kitten's nails while he was there. He got stuck on things less, but he still scratched things up and still clung to things. It doesn't stop the damage.
Look - having an animal is a choice - and one we all make because the pleasure outweighs the pain in the buttedness. People DO shave cats and dogs, de-skunk skunks, and various other things to make it easier to care for pets. Pets cost money, time, and work. You clean up crap and pee and puke and hair. You have vet bills, and have to have someone care for them when you are gone or find a way to take them with you, you have to come home on time to feed them. Many people DON'T have pets, because it is too much hassle. Some people don't care for them very well, or torture them. Many are abandoned. Declawing isn't a GREAT procedure - I liken it to a hysterectomy. No one thinks it is painfree or emotion-free, but when it bothers you too much, you do the surgery. In every other way I am a caring and loving pet owner - the claws and clawing bother me too much. Period. The choice is to NOT have a cat - as some have suggested - or to declaw. I guarantee you my cats would choose the surgery over not being in my home - especially when the alternative is a shelter or euthanasia.
We can get all judgemental on each other (I think letting a cat go outside is way worse than declawing, and can result in a hell of a lot more pain or even death) or we can talk about the pros and cons calmly and make our own informed decisions. Which was why I started this thread. Declawing IS a huge surgical procedure that shouldn't be entered lightly, but it IS a valid choice, as well. For those who wouldn't make that choice and STILL have cats - great for you! I applaud you! But for those of us that DO choose to declaw - there are reasons we choose, and frankly, you don't get to decide for us or our cats. And yes, there are things we do for our convenience when we choose to have a pet. That is life - and without that ability less people would be pet owners - and more animals in the shelters and killed every year.
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Post by shattered on Jul 2, 2008 9:38:13 GMT -5
Shey,
Though I can't imagine ever getting a cat declawed, yes, I would rather be a declawed cat in your home than a cat with claws in a shelter. Your home strikes me as a very loving one, toward people and animals, and I have said so.
Of course those of us who oppose declawing don't get to decide for you or your cats -- but YOU are the one who started this thread ASKING for people's input, remember? And that's what people have been doing.
Since you asked for opinions on the matter, a reasonable assumption to make was that you weren't quite sure about whether to go ahead with it or not. So of course people who are principally opposed to it will give you their arguments.
You asked for input, and got it -- con, pro, and in the middle. Of course the decision is yours.
Shattered
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Post by sheyd on Jul 2, 2008 9:58:56 GMT -5
Actually - I wasn't asking for opinions to make any decisions - I was just opening the discussion. I think it is a highly charged discussion (good for a soapbox! ) and a lot of people tend to come down on one side or the other. Maybe sometimes people might come down too hard because they don't understand or appreciate the other side of the issue - or just don't have the knowledge of what is involved. I AM educated about what is involved, and am satisfied I am making the right decision for me and my family. I think people who don't understand the process should learn about it and the alternatives before making a decision, and I think if they have that information, people should allow them that choice for themselves.
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Post by rocko on Jul 2, 2008 11:09:36 GMT -5
They recommend having it done by two years of age.
why would you not wait and see if there is a problem rather than just assuming and cutting off their little finger tips??
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Post by sheyd on Jul 2, 2008 11:28:10 GMT -5
They actually recommend having it done at the same time as their neutering, so they are all done at once, and the neutering keeps them calm and off their feet during the healing time anyway. I always thought you couldn't neuter until 6 months - but at the shelters they do at 8 weeks, and they recommend it be done before 4 months old, now.
Since it IS a different walking experience for them, if it is done when they are very young, they don't have the trauma associated with an older cat. I wouldn't have it done even once they reach 1 year old. The cat I didn't have declawed was just over 6 months old when we got her - and had balance problems as it was (she was severely malnutritioned on the streets). Even 6 months was too old.
For me, it is already a problem. We have kitties trying to sharpen their claws on pants legs, my hand is chewed up from playing with them, and we are constantly rescuing them from being stuck on bedding, etc. Plus, last time I was at the shelter, I had to tell one of the ladies about a kitten whose eye was all goupy - turned out to be from another kitty scratching near his eye - kittens play rough! For me, this is the right decision.
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Post by kittenhart on Jul 2, 2008 12:27:46 GMT -5
Shey, You have to make the right choice for your household, but it is a much bigger surgery than neutering, and is basically like removing the first metatarsal (claws are different than primate nails). If you get it done while they are young it is less tramautic for them then waiting to see if it is an issue first, and then doing it....that can turn a cat into a "biter". I have had many cats over the years, and only one was declawed (not by me....arrived into my life that way). I have always found that consistent positive reinforcement to a scratching post (ie. allow them to think they are training me to respond to rubbing of the "treat dispenser" with front paws) has worked wonders. I have nice furniture.....that is still nice after many cat years. As for people who argue about children getting scratched- declawing a pet is not a replacement for proper supervision of your child....we don't remove dogs' teeth because there are small children around do we? Ultimately, although I don't support declawing, I think it is preferable to euthanasia (which is what the alternative usually ends up being for a domestic cat) and if you are not a consistent enough person to provide the reinforcement needed, then that may be the only way to have things be happy for your household. It is painful for them, but only for a couple of days til it heals....it's not like you are subjecting them to a life of pain and/or being low on the heirarchy because of it, as some may argue
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Post by Mel (cherry) on Jul 2, 2008 13:06:21 GMT -5
Hmmmmm I didn't know they removed part of the bone..........
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Post by sheyd on Jul 2, 2008 13:58:50 GMT -5
They have to because it is too intricately attached. If they don't, the claw can grow back, and possibly grow back deformed.
But, yes, kittenhart, exactly - if it is better for the cat in the long run, because we aren't consistent enough trainers, and it isn't like we are subjecting them to a life of pain and misery - it heals. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.
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JC
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Jul 2, 2008 14:54:47 GMT -5
i have one cat.... he has his claws, but i also adopted him when he was about 1 1/2, and already a good kitty. (we have A LOT of military around here, so there are A LOT of awesome animals for adoption) he is very good about not clawing anybody, but all my dining room chairs are scratched at the ends. gien him plenty of his own stuff to scratch but nooooo. i have to say, if i had to deal with a kitten, i might get them declawed... not really sure. i think it really depends on the cat. course, that is one of the reasons i adopt older cats... kittens are cute as hell, but very painfull and destructive!
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Post by sheyd on Jul 2, 2008 15:51:12 GMT -5
hey JC! Good to see you online!!! How are you doing!
I would have liked to get an older cat, too - but my cats were already older when the girls were born, they wanted to experience true kittendom. Its cute, but yeah - lots more work!
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Post by rocko on Jul 2, 2008 16:04:08 GMT -5
I have never had a kitten. I have had a young (6 month or 9 months though).
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