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Post by cdngurl on Jan 17, 2008 10:20:07 GMT -5
Are we allowed to post links? www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/health/14heart.html?_r=1&oref=sloginStem cell research can offer us huge advances in the medical field. I was amazed reading about the latest news. I'm not sure what the problem is about stem cell research - provided it is hugely regulated, and that embryos aren't created specifically for this reason. Is it because by supporting this, we are thereby supporting abortion? If abortion is legal, why is this not legal? What am I missing here? Thoughts? Added: Does anyone know why they would need embyonic cells vs donor bone marrow (adult)? Also - not wanting to open up an abortion debate -- stem cell research seems to be one of the big election issues and I'd like to hear some opinions on the issue.
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Post by goods on Jan 17, 2008 11:01:42 GMT -5
It is my understand that ALL promising research has come from the "adult" stem cells and there has been ZERO success with embryonic stem cells.
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Post by cdngurl on Jan 17, 2008 11:13:37 GMT -5
It is my understand that ALL promising research has come from the "adult" stem cells and there has been ZERO success with embryonic stem cells. Really? Then why is there such a debate? (though the link I provided did say "baby rats" for the heart)
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Post by goods on Jan 17, 2008 11:22:11 GMT -5
Personally I think there is such a "debate" because some people have an agenda and willfully misrepresent the facts to push that agenda. Secondly other people will take those "facts" on face value and regurgitate them.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 17, 2008 12:06:08 GMT -5
It is my understand that ALL promising research has come from the "adult" stem cells and there has been ZERO success with embryonic stem cells. You've been misinformed goods. The fact is, human embryonic stell treatment is the only stem cell treatment that has shown true benefits. The fact is, there are paralyzed Americans travelling to India right now to receive human embryonic stem stell injections. And the fact is, these Americans are showing results. They are experiencing new feeling and movement in places where they haven't had feeling since their injury. The stem cells are injected into the area of injury along the spinal cord. A human embryo is grown in a lab and the stem cells are taken from the embryo and then the embryo dies. My issue with human embryonic stem cell treatment is two-fold. Firstly, I don't agree with growing a human life for the sole purpose of taking it's cells and therefore killing it. I don't believe we have the right to take a life in such a manner. Secondly, I think stem cell treatment sends the wrong message to the disabled community. It tells them that in order to have a happy, fulfilled life, they must correct their physical disabilty. I happen to believe that a disabled person can have a happy and fulfilled life in spite of their disability.
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Post by cdngurl on Jan 17, 2008 12:16:57 GMT -5
Thanks Blazin ..
Can I ask - What if the stem cells did not come from embryos specifically harvested for tissue regeneration? Say them came from a fertility clinic where the embryo would be disposed of? Say they came from an aborted fetus? (I know ... touchy.. just asking).
I respect your view regarding disabled persons learning to appreciate life for what it is.. but what about the opportunity to regain what they once had (say a young hockey player injured for example)? What about someone with Parkinson's - like Michael J Fox? Life goes on for him and I'm sure he and his family make the most of it - but his imminent demise must surely take away from each day?
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Post by sheyd on Jan 17, 2008 12:17:30 GMT -5
It is my understand that ALL promising research has come from the "adult" stem cells and there has been ZERO success with embryonic stem cells. The fact is, human embryonic stell treatment is the only stem cell treatment that has shown true benefits. That actually isn't true... There have been results (including things that ARE currently being done/used) here in the US. Stem cells are not all embryonic, as a matter of fact. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cells Umbilical cord blood, taken right after a live healthy birth - is one such example. This is actually adult stem cells, and no embryo is harmed by it. The biggest problem I have with the fight over stem cell research is that because of the embryonic fear/debate, ALL stem cell research is limited/stopped. I gave birth three times, and each time tried to donate cord blood. Even if I paid to have the blood stored, I could only store it for my own use, not for research. I would have had to drive to a hospital three hours away (there is only one donating hospital in MN). Stem cell research is NOT bad, regardless of how you feel about embryonic research. Lets allow stem cell research, THEN have the embryonic debate. (And btw - many mothers who have lost their babies naturally wanted to donate stem cells and were not allowed to - they wanted some good to come from their loss and were blocked). Shey
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Post by goods on Jan 17, 2008 12:21:33 GMT -5
From an April 11,2007 listing so things could be different today. www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/treatments.htmBenefits of Stem Cells to Human Patients Adult Stem Cells v. Embryonic Stem Cells Adult Stem Cells Cancers: Brain Cancer Retinoblastoma Ovarian Cancer Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma Testicular Cancer Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma Hodgkin’s Lymphoma Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia Cancer of the lymph nodes: Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy Multiple Myeloma Myelodysplasia Breast Cancer Neuroblastoma Renal Cell Carcinoma Various Solid Tumors Soft Tissue Sarcoma Ewing’s Sarcoma Waldenstrom’s macroglobulinemia Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis POEMS syndrome Myelofibrosis Auto-Immune Diseases: Diabetes Type I (Juvenile) Systemic Lupus Sjogren’s Syndrome Myasthenia Autoimmune Cytopenia Scleromyxedema Scleroderma Crohn’s Disease Behcet’s Disease Rheumatoid Arthritis Juvenile Arthritis Multiple Sclerosis Polychondritis Systemic Vasculitis Alopecia Universalis Buerger’s Disease Cardiovascular: Acute Heart Damage Chronic Coronary Artery Disease Ocular: Corneal regeneration Immunodeficiencies: Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries: Parkinson’s Disease Spinal Cord Injury Stroke Damage Anemias and Other Blood Conditions: Sickle Cell Anemia Sideroblastic Anemia Aplastic Anemia Red Cell Aplasia Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia Thalassemia Primary Amyloidosis Diamond Blackfan Anemia Fanconi’s Anemia Chronic Epstein-Barr Infection Wounds and Injuries: Limb Gangrene Surface Wound Healing Jawbone Replacement Skull Bone Repair Other Metabolic Disorders: Hurler’s Syndrome Osteogenesis Imperfecta Krabbe Leukodystrophy Osteopetrosis Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy Liver Disease: Chronic Liver Failure Liver Cirrhosis Bladder Disease: End-Stage Bladder Disease _____________________________________________ Embryonic Stem Cells:None
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Post by goods on Jan 17, 2008 12:26:37 GMT -5
I also seem to remember someone was able to transplant a woman's stem cells to increase breast size. Which I am all for. I am passionately against implants.
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Post by cdngurl on Jan 17, 2008 12:26:45 GMT -5
(And btw - many mothers who have lost their babies naturally wanted to donate stem cells and were not allowed to - they wanted some good to come from their loss and were blocked). I hadn't thought of that. I never understood why one would save cord blood if the research had no chance of catching up.. Thanks everyone for contributing to the talk
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Post by sheyd on Jan 17, 2008 12:34:41 GMT -5
The research IS happening now, it is just limited. It is REALLY hard to get funding for it - but there IS funding. That hospital I would have had to drive to is connected to the research being done on the hearts that you linked at first. The U of MN is one of the few places that DOES have stem cell research funding. (Btw- I work at the U on another campus). I didn't save my cord blood (very expensive) but if I could have donated it I sure would have! My oldest friend has had 3 miscarriages, 2 healthy births. 2 of the 3 times she tried to donate the babies that didn't make it - even asking added to her horrible stress (2 of the miscarriages were before her first live birth - and trying to donate was SOOO hard when she wanted a healthy baby and wanted there to be SOMETHING good that came out of her pain). After that failed attempt she looked into it harder, but was still unable to donate by the time of the third miscarriage. I think we have very limited vision about this stuff. It isn't (or shouldn't be) all about abortion or purposefully ending a fetus. There is MORE to this research that gets totally lost because of that debate.
Shey
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Post by jules on Jan 17, 2008 13:10:22 GMT -5
The biggest problem I have with the fight over stem cell research is that because of the embryonic fear/debate, ALL stem cell research is limited/stopped. [...] Stem cell research is NOT bad, regardless of how you feel about embryonic research. Lets allow stem cell research, THEN have the embryonic debate. I agree completely. There are actually no participating hospitals in my entire state for donating cord blood. With the proper funding cord blood could be donated as a matter of course, rather than it ending up as medical waste, which is such a, well, waste.
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 17, 2008 13:41:26 GMT -5
From an April 11,2007 listing so things could be different today. www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/treatments.htmBenefits of Stem Cells to Human Patients Adult Stem Cells v. Embryonic Stem Cells Adult Stem Cells Cancers: Brain Cancer Retinoblastoma Ovarian Cancer Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma Testicular Cancer Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma Hodgkin’s Lymphoma Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia Acute Myelogenous Leukemia Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia Cancer of the lymph nodes: Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy Multiple Myeloma Myelodysplasia Breast Cancer Neuroblastoma Renal Cell Carcinoma Various Solid Tumors Soft Tissue Sarcoma Ewing’s Sarcoma Waldenstrom’s macroglobulinemia Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis POEMS syndrome Myelofibrosis Auto-Immune Diseases: Diabetes Type I (Juvenile) Systemic Lupus Sjogren’s Syndrome Myasthenia Autoimmune Cytopenia Scleromyxedema Scleroderma Crohn’s Disease Behcet’s Disease Rheumatoid Arthritis Juvenile Arthritis Multiple Sclerosis Polychondritis Systemic Vasculitis Alopecia Universalis Buerger’s Disease Cardiovascular: Acute Heart Damage Chronic Coronary Artery Disease Ocular: Corneal regeneration Immunodeficiencies: Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries: Parkinson’s Disease Spinal Cord Injury Stroke Damage Anemias and Other Blood Conditions: Sickle Cell Anemia Sideroblastic Anemia Aplastic Anemia Red Cell Aplasia Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia Thalassemia Primary Amyloidosis Diamond Blackfan Anemia Fanconi’s Anemia Chronic Epstein-Barr Infection Wounds and Injuries: Limb Gangrene Surface Wound Healing Jawbone Replacement Skull Bone Repair Other Metabolic Disorders: Hurler’s Syndrome Osteogenesis Imperfecta Krabbe Leukodystrophy Osteopetrosis Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy Liver Disease: Chronic Liver Failure Liver Cirrhosis Bladder Disease: End-Stage Bladder Disease _____________________________________________ Embryonic Stem Cells:None I'm not quite sure what this list is supposed to represent. If you're claiming that stem cells have provided proven successful treatment for all of the above named disorders and diseases, i'm calling bullshit. Maybe you can provide specific cases for all these disorders you listed? You won't find them, but at least you can try. The bottomline is, other than a handful of successful bone marrow transplants, research has shown that it is indeed the human embryonic stem cells that are most beneficial to paralysis and other disorders. This may change. And there is a lot of research going on right now to show the benefits of adult stem cell treatment. I have no real issue with adult stem cell use, neither do most people. No human life has to be taken for adult stem cell treatment. My issue, and the issue of most people that value human life is, that no medical treatment is morally acceptable when a human life is involuntarily taken. Cdngrl, I disagree with abortion and I disagree with the very premise of human embryonic stem cell treatment. So maybe that'll answer your first question. To your second point, I totally support any disabled person that wants to try to rehabilitate themselves, just not by means of human embryonic stem cell treatement though.
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Post by cdngurl on Jan 17, 2008 13:52:31 GMT -5
Cdngrl, I disagree with abortion and I disagree with the very premise of human embryonic stem cell treatment. So maybe that'll answer your first question. To your second point, I totally support any disabled person that wants to try to rehabilitate themselves, just not by means of human embryonic stem cell treatement though. I completely understand why someone who is not pro-choice would then not support the use of a fetus for stem cell research. The issues are tied - so I fully understand your view. I guess what a question might be then - is why stop all research, as Shey suggests, when it is possible to get the same type of cells from other sources (example - cord blood - donated cells)? Is it the fear of misuse? Is it the very fear that in the future, we would create life in a dish to then destroy it?
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Post by blazinheart on Jan 17, 2008 14:00:29 GMT -5
[I guess what a question might be then - is why stop all research, as Shey suggests, when it is possible to get the same type of cells from other sources (example - cord blood - donated cells)? Is it the fear of misuse? Is it the very fear that in the future, we would create life in a dish to then destroy it? I don't think that we should stop non-human embryonic stem cell research or treatment. I support it. There is stem cell research going on all over the world. And there are a lot of cases in which stem cell treatments are used on actual patients. Whether or not these treatments prove successful is yet to be seen. Most stem cell treatment used in cases of cancer are accompanied by lots of chemotherapy, which we know works. So it's hard to say if the stem cells are all that beneficial. The rest of the cases in which doctors have used stem cells to treat disorders look positive, but the long term effects have yet to be seen, aside from bone marrow treatment, which has been proven effective. With human embryonic stem cell treatment, I have seen with my own 2 eyes, a woman who was paralyzed and couldn't walk, receive treatment and she can now walk short distances with leg braces. She can also crawl and has new feeling in her legs. This is the kind of proven stem cell treatment that i'm talking about.
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