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Post by sheyd on Nov 14, 2008 15:25:31 GMT -5
My ex and I had a super amicable divorce. We sat down at Christmastime with my brother, gave him generic splits on property, and let him fill in the rest with standard forms. Although we agreed he would pay $1000 a month in CS because that is what I needed to keep their standard of living on my income, we set in the decree that it would be 990, so he wouldn't get in trouble if for some reason he had to get behind a little bit. For taxes we agreed we would check which way worked the best, and split the savings. In general, it was assumed he would claim two (since he made significantly more than me) and the difference made by the second child would be given to me, since that was more than I would get if I claimed her, and more than he would get if he had to alternate years taking one child then taking two. I agreed to waive him paying half of the child care. Holidays and visitation was to be agreed upon.
Well - lo and behold, now he wants to go "by the divorce papers". What BS! If he wants to go by the divorce papers, he shouldn't have moved 3 1/2 hours away. He also has no set visitation, so I shouldn't have to give them up so much, right? He also stepped down to the $990 (a long time ago) because he "couldn't remember agreeing to anything else". No biggie, it is only $10.
Why is this a huge issue? Because the ONLY ONLY ONLY holiday I absolutely say I want the kids for is Christmas. Christmas eve and Christmas morning. When he lived 2 blocks away, they could go to his house Christmas morning too, open presents, go back and forth... Now he lives 3 1/2 hours away - has a 2 year old son and another one on the way. He GETS his family Christmas, but he want to take the girls over Christmas eve/morning. No sharing possible, because of how far he is - he just expects me to be without my kids over Christmas. I give him ANY other holiday he wants - I had no kids this year for Halloween because it fell over a time when they COULD travel and still spend the holiday with him. I went a couple Thanksgivings without them, etc. My mom has always said, you can miss ANY holiday, but you WILL spend Christmas Eve with me. All partners are told that as they join the family, my ex lived with that for years he KNOWS what Christmas means to me and mine - but now he wants to "go by the legal papers" and trade off holidays.
Guess what. Selfish time. I didn't move away from my kids - I have them all but 4 days a month. They are my whole world, my whole family, but he has his new family now. I am not taking them away from him - I offer more time than he asks for, I keep him informed of events, I do what I can to keep them connected, but THIS HOLIDAY IS MINE. I didn't choose for him to move so this would be so difficult. It is the only thing I ask for, the only thing I fight for. He can screw me on the rental place (always has) can screw me on taxes (he at least let me claim 2 last year for the first time) can screw me on child support, can do everything else he has done over the years (like being so considerate of my feelings that he was bangin' my ex-best friend before the divorce papers were actually filed) but THIS IS MINE. I WILL fight for it. I will get as mean and nasty as ever I can be if I have to. I will go to court for it. I have a packed arsenal, which I hope to NEVER have to use - but I will. This is all I ever asked for, don't even TRY to take it from me!
PS. Although I spoke calmly- and said NONE of this but that yes, I WOULD always want Christmas Eve and Christmas morning - he hung up on me. How mature.
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Post by freckles on Nov 14, 2008 16:12:24 GMT -5
When they are 17 or 18
It will be better
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Post by rocko on Nov 14, 2008 16:30:47 GMT -5
Hopefully you can talk some sense into him.
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Post by sheyd on Nov 14, 2008 17:02:42 GMT -5
Freck, you are right, but my youngest is only 6 - that is LOTS of years to fight over, when so much has been amicable. I am NOT bending on this, though.
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Post by crushy on Nov 16, 2008 19:49:42 GMT -5
I'm sorry, shey. As a mom, I know how much Christmas Eve and Christmas morning means.
You said he has another one on the way? I know my anal retentive ex got worse when his wife got pregnant. Maybe this is temporary? I mean, I can't get my ex to take our sons. Please just keep clear records...just in case.
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Post by sheyd on Nov 18, 2008 10:16:08 GMT -5
Thank you all - it isn't temporary. He has said before that someday we would clash over this, but before now it wasn't as inconvenient for him to take them around Christmas, nor as convenient for him to have them as this year.
He hung up on me again. He can only handle talking about it for a short while. I suggested via text that he email it instead, but that we need to finalize something so I can make plans.
I think what is hardest for him is realizing that unless he actually takes me to court, he doesn't have a say. I have full physical custody. I remember the painful realization I had had when I realized I couldn't control him having the girls around my ex-best friend a long time ago - now he has the same one. He can't control it, and asking isn't going to get him his way. And much like my realization back then - he can take me to court, but he isn't guaranteed (nor is it even probable) that he will get his way - and it would ruin the rest of our relationship which has been amicable.
I am not budging on it - unless a court forces me. If that happens - all cooperation goes out the window, and it will be by the letter of what the court says - and that includes that I will bring up other changes to the original decree, and nasty bits of history will be brought out as well. It would be a bad choice, and he knows it. We BOTH like that we can cooperate and communicate about the kids. He better be REALLY SURE it is worth it before he pushes this. I hope for our kids sake he doesn't.
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Post by sheyd on Nov 18, 2008 13:41:58 GMT -5
Well... I sent him an email. The first part was about this year (with him not getting them Christmas eve/Christmas morning) the second part was the ongoing issue that I will NEVER give up that time without the court forcing me.
The second part was basically saying we work well together but have never followed the decree, if he wants to start now getting nasty and try to force me into this, we will review the whole dang thing and our cooperation goes out the window. Now to see his response.... Hope he just drops it, Christmas has never been worth a fight for him before, why start now?
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Post by rocko on Nov 18, 2008 15:46:47 GMT -5
We NEVER get my step-son for Christmas Eve/Christmas morning. I would love to have him, but I would NEVER take that away from his mother. We do live close enough that he is able to come over very early and open presents with the his brothers at my house, too. He has a little sister at his house that would be there alone also if we took him.
I know you and his SO don't get along now, but at one point you two were friends...maybe you could talk to her and get her to understand.
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JC
Full Member
Posts: 205
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Post by JC on Nov 18, 2008 18:34:16 GMT -5
shey....
honey, take a deep breath and remember... it is JUST A DAY. a day that can be made up if need be... i have celebrated Christmas on the 22nd, the 28th etc. were they any less meaningfull? not at all. it is stated in my divorce that one is to have thanksgiving and christmas eve, and the other christmas day, and it is supposed to rotate each year... i have no idea which i am supposed to have this year and neither does the ex, because we usually try to get Will to EVERYONES house... i know that 3 1/2 hours away makes that more difficult. COMPROMISE. Invite him and his bride to YOUR house for the holidays. and then when the kids get older let them decide where they want to be. im pretty sure if he takes you to court over this, he will get his way. the joke isnt every other weekend and holidays for nothing. and you wanting to throw all the dirt you have on him out in the open will do nothing but hurt your girls in the long run, and you know it. i hope you guys can work this out.
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Post by shattered on Nov 19, 2008 10:52:07 GMT -5
shey.... honey, take a deep breath and remember... it is JUST A DAY. a day that can be made up if need be... i have celebrated Christmas on the 22nd, the 28th etc. were they any less meaningfull? not at all. it is stated in my divorce that one is to have thanksgiving and christmas eve, and the other christmas day, and it is supposed to rotate each year... i have no idea which i am supposed to have this year and neither does the ex, because we usually try to get Will to EVERYONES house... i know that 3 1/2 hours away makes that more difficult. COMPROMISE. Invite him and his bride to YOUR house for the holidays. and then when the kids get older let them decide where they want to be. im pretty sure if he takes you to court over this, he will get his way. the joke isnt every other weekend and holidays for nothing. and you wanting to throw all the dirt you have on him out in the open will do nothing but hurt your girls in the long run, and you know it. i hope you guys can work this out. Shey, I truly feel for you -- but I think JC has hit the nail on the head. I, too, have celebrated Christmas on Thanksgiving before or after the official day, for various reasons. And those celebrations were more real than the calendar day. Hugs to you. |
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Post by sheyd on Nov 19, 2008 12:16:35 GMT -5
Well, it ISN'T the same on any other day - not to me. It also isn't the same because my mother has the whole family - all my sibs and their kids - Christmas eve. She has always said we don't have to come for any other day, but Christmas eve is hers.
And if it IS the same any other day - then why can't he just have it at his house another day? Plus, he won't be sitting without kids Christmas morning because the girls aren't there - he has his own kids now.
They live with me full time, visiting him only every other weekend, so the stuff they get from me is for HOME. Plus, this is the largest holiday to me - I shop like crazy, think about it year round as I look at things, there is big build up for us, etc. Birthdays have their traditions, too, but Christmas is THE BIG ONE. For him it is an important holiday, but not like mine. His own family growing up didn't always have it on the day, and had few traditions around it.
As for compromise - I HAVE invited him (and them) to my house. Even when he was single, except for the first year he refused to come. His family lives in town AND has lots of room, so he even has a place he can be in town, there is nowhere for me to be in his town (and I highly doubt there will be an invitation there). I have never even SEEN his house. When he was in town, one Christmas eve he had the girls until we went to my mom's, then took them at 10 am the next morning. In fact - they have a standing invitation to join my family's Christmas too! (Which is why I always protected them from my family knowing what REALLY happened, so we could have that good relationship.) He has free access, except for those few hours, and I never asked him to move away (nor did he get permission from the courts to do so) so the fact that access is not as easy anymore is in no way my fault or responsibility.
I am also not at all confident he WOULD get his way if he takes it to court. He hasn't always acted in the best interests of the girls, nor has followed the decree himself. He has already set a precedent that the actual day is NOT important to him, since this is the first year he has asked for it. I have also given him pretty much any other holiday he wanted, so I doubt a judge will think it is too much to ask that this particular one be mine, since it is the kids' tradition.
No way am I budging. I agree, dragging all this through the courts is not a great idea, but neither is him fighting me on it. He knows how firm I am, so if he chooses to do this it will be with full knowledge of what he is getting into. Having it ON the 24/25th hasn't been such a priority before, why start?
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Post by sheyd on Nov 19, 2008 23:30:00 GMT -5
Well... it is settled for this year, at least... I will be picking them up on the 24th after 2 (woo-hoo!!!) Hey, and as a bonus, I finally get to see their home! lol!
The rest of it will be dealt with later, so I suspect there will still be a fight on the table, but that will be horrible, and I don't want to let this Christmas be any more ruined, so we will deal with it then.
He is being very accommodating, too - I really appreciate it. We always have worked well together for the good of the kids, this is just the major battle I have to hold my ground on - everyone has their "thing", this is mine. I so hope he sees that and doesn't fight me on it...
Whew... at least this year is settled.
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Post by JimB on Nov 20, 2008 9:33:09 GMT -5
I'm glad things have worked out for this year, shey.
But I'm firmly with the last few posters on this, and nothing you've said has changed my mind. It's a date on the calendar, nothing more. It's kind of like the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from having your own celebration, with all the trimmings, whenever you like.
I find it a little troubling that you feel your annual holiday invitation for him is a bargaining chip. It's a nice gesture, but come on - he's married to your former best friend. Would you accept such an invitation if it came from him? There's a difference between a cordial relationship with your ex and actually spending quality time with her.
I feel like you might be falling into the trap of making this a competition. I see a lot of divorced couples get into petty squabbles over nothing, just because they can't stand to see the other party "win". Bottom line is, IMO, you're being pretty rigid with this. We all have to pick our battles, and if this is the one you've picked, so be it. But it takes two to create conflict, and if it gets ugly down the road, the responsibility is exactly half yours.
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Post by sheyd on Nov 20, 2008 10:31:07 GMT -5
It's a date on the calendar, nothing more. To YOU - not to me. And if people feel that way, then they shouldn't have trouble if I want that specific day, then, right? Because he can just do it anytime? To assume that just because it is flexible to you means it SHOULD be just as flexible to me is assuming a lot. Should I also have to place the same value on other areas or dates as you or anyone else? There is absolutely nothing preventing you from having your own celebration, with all the trimmings, whenever you like. Though true - it isn't the same, not to me. Thats great if it is for you or anyone else, but we each value different things, the timing on this holiday matters to me. If forced by the courts, of course I will still have Christmas on a different day with my kids, and make the best of it I can, but I will spend the actual Christmas in a sobbing puddle on the floor. I find it a little troubling that you feel your annual holiday invitation for him is a bargaining chip. It's a nice gesture, but come on - he's married to your former best friend. Would you accept such an invitation if it came from him? There's a difference between a cordial relationship with your ex and actually spending quality time with her. Who said it was a bargaining chip? Yes, I absolutely WOULD accept an invitation, and in fact HAVE spent quality time with her - we all (as in my ex, his wife, their baby, me, Harry, and our three girls) went to Disneyland together. We ate together, rode rides together, I held their baby so they could ride rides he couldn't go on. We have had birthday parties together, ate meals out together... In fact, I am currently waiting on a response to whether or not they want to come for our Thanksgiving, and yes, they would be welcome. (I don't expect they will come, in part because they may not be comfy, but also because at 9 months pregnant it would be hard for her to be 3 1/2 hours from where she wants to deliver.) I feel like you might be falling into the trap of making this a competition. I see a lot of divorced couples get into petty squabbles over nothing, just because they can't stand to see the other party "win". Bottom line is, IMO, you're being pretty rigid with this. We all have to pick our battles, and if this is the one you've picked, so be it. But it takes two to create conflict, and if it gets ugly down the road, the responsibility is exactly half yours. This is absolutely NOTHING about competition, and frankly I kinda resent the whole idea as you present it. This isn't me trying to be petty or win, and especially considering where this all started, I think I have done nothing short of bending over backward to keep it civil and fair and give him as much as I can. This is about something being important to me, and finally putting my foot down and saying since it IS important, I am not budging. This IS the battle I picked, and yes, I would share in the ugly. But frankly, since he was willing to move days before it obviously ISN'T as important to him, so for him to engage in a battle WOULD be about winning, and not about what is important to him. |
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Post by rocko on Nov 20, 2008 10:59:58 GMT -5
I totally see it from your point of view, Shey.
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