|
Post by prairienomad on Mar 8, 2008 12:27:03 GMT -5
Last night we were talking about cheating. I have been telling stories from my past: how my ex-h left and found someone new, and how my ex-con man conned me in every way. I was trying to tell him why I find it hard to trust.
He understood and listened. We both agreed wholeheartedly that we don't want to go through the pain of divorce again, EVER. He also said that he doesn't understand why people cheat. (He did not cheat on me; I just suspected it b/c he was so distant from me when we broke up before.)
We were having a great talk but then he brought up a scenario that if he was ever went out drinking with the boys after work, he might stay overnight (he works in a town 45 min away) at one of the boy's houses, and that I shouldn't be suspicious of him cheating if he did that.
So then it brought up the whole thing of drinking again. He has said he doesn't want to get into heavy drinking again, but just that it could conceivably happen once in a long while that he might go out with the boys for a drink or two.
This just brought total tension out of me, and then we started a mild form of argument ... not bad but just both of us tense.
You see, I was brought up without any drinking and have never drank or been in that lifestyle. He comes from the other end of the spectrum: his bio Mom and Dad were big drunks, his adoptive Dad was an ex-drunk, and he drank a lot when he was younger. To him, it's not a big deal and he feels I should be happy if he tells me that drinking will never be a big priority for him again.
This whole issue came up because I was feeling kind of tense in the first place ... and he was trying to reassure me. It seems like often when things are going really well for us, something rather random comes up to spoil the peace.
From my past, it is harder for me to trust.
The drinking is a difference of perception and it is theoretical; and I wonder if I am simply too uptight about things (I feel like maybe I am)
Can anyone give me any insight?
|
|
|
Post by wizer on Mar 8, 2008 12:29:14 GMT -5
If he has such poor self control that a night out with the boys results in him getting drunk than he shouldn't go out with the boys. He's a grown man, not a child, if he can't act like a grownup than he should avoid the temptations.
|
|
|
Post by jules on Mar 8, 2008 13:30:33 GMT -5
The drinking is a difference of perception and it is theoretical; and I wonder if I am simply too uptight about things (I feel like maybe I am) I think maybe you are, too. What was telling to me was that you referred to any person who ever drinks any alcohol as having a "lifestyle" different from your own. Most adults drink from time to time without it changing or affecting their lifestyle. (And yes I know there are exceptions, but I'm speaking about the general public -- not alcoholics.) As for staying over someone's house after drinking -- this is something I did fairly frequently when I was younger (through my mid-twenties). I'm very aware of the hazards of driving after drinking, even after you think you've sobered up "enough". Now I don't generally drink at the rate I used to, or if I do I have someone giving me a ride, so I haven't stayed over someone's house in a while, but I don't think it is a bad thing to do now and then. However it's not something that would be necessary after literally "a drink or two." For what it's worth, even if some tension is released, I think it's good that you two are communicating about issues that you're not necessarily comfortable with, but willing to discuss just the same.
|
|
|
Post by prairienomad on Mar 8, 2008 13:44:04 GMT -5
Thanks Jules. I appreciate what you said about it being good that we are communicating. I guess it isgood, although uncomfortable, at times.
I guess it is better to get these things out now, instead of being completely blindsided.
I am aware that I do get uptight sometimes, and try to take that into account when I am considering things. I also feel tense because we are trying to plan a wedding in a very short time. There have been so many changes in the last little while.
|
|
|
Post by wizer on Mar 8, 2008 14:15:35 GMT -5
I am aware that I do get uptight sometimes Yes, you sure do. Awareness of a problem is the first step in dealing with it.
|
|
|
Post by prairienomad on Mar 8, 2008 15:24:08 GMT -5
I am aware that I do get uptight sometimes Yes, you sure do. Awareness of a problem is the first step in dealing with it. I am very self-aware. I know I'm not perfect and I never claimed to be. I come on this site to grow and share.
|
|
|
Post by RO on Mar 8, 2008 17:19:22 GMT -5
I would reiterate what jules has said.
I think you deserve kudos for communicating about uncomfortable topics. This shows that you are both really trying to relate to on another.
The old saying is that couples who do not argue usually means one is not being truthful. I don't know if that is true in every case but being able to show that you have differences and discussing them proves to me that you both want a healthy relationship.
Stay open minded about discusions.
Best of luck!
|
|
|
Post by sheyd on Mar 8, 2008 19:56:42 GMT -5
I have to say, though, that I agree with idoc's first post. I think part of the problem is there is this perception that is unfortunately common that getting blasted until you lose the ability to drive, get yourself home, etc is a really good thing, almost necessary. The truth is, it isn't. You should, as an adult, be able to handle yourself without needing that. If you can drink responsibly, and handle the effects, no problem. If you can't - as in needing to stay the night somewhere because you can't get a cab, etc - you just shouldn't drink that much.
Although it IS better to stay than to drive, with his history of alcoholism, and his past history, I wouldn't think it should be necessary to "go out with the boys" in such a way that he needs to stay out all night. That just shouldn't be necessary for a grown-up. He is looking for permission to lose control - and I just don't know why that should be necessary?
Shey
|
|
|
Post by redskyatnight on Mar 9, 2008 8:39:37 GMT -5
I also think Jules comment about communicating is important, but I'm wondering why the subject of this is "Cheating" when it seems to be more about his use of alcohol. Is it the alcohol use that bothers you, or do you think he might be lying about staying overnight because he is drunk and doing something else?
|
|
|
Post by JimB on Mar 9, 2008 9:18:32 GMT -5
Drinking is a big social issue, and not everyone understands it. I suspect it's because it's such a big part of our culture, most people are willing to dismiss it as "no big deal".
I come from a background with very little drinking as well - it's not really part of my social structure. I do drink socially, now, but I've never understood the allure of getting out-of-control sloshed. My gf comes from the opposite viewpoint - she's not a drunk, but alcohol has always been a part of her social structure. As such, we've had some pretty significant disagreements on the topic.
That said, there are times when you simply have to be able to take your partner at his word. If he says he will behave responsibly, and such a commitment sounds good enough to you, give him the chance to honor that commitment. Plenty of opportunity to get into it with him if he slips up.
|
|
|
Post by prairienomad on Mar 9, 2008 9:31:16 GMT -5
I also think Jules comment about communicating is important, but I'm wondering why the subject of this is "Cheating" when it seems to be more about his use of alcohol. Is it the alcohol use that bothers you, or do you think he might be lying about staying overnight because he is drunk and doing something else? Hi Jules ... you are right ... the topic really is more about alcohol. I started the post about cheating and trust but the focal point became more about drinking. He had explained to me that he would not cheat while drinking, because that is what scares me about excessive drinking. Jim, thanks for understanding the issue. To those that have always drank, it seems like making a big deal out of nothing, but I just don't feel comfortable having people getting drunk in my home, or with it being a big part of my life. But you are right: I need to trust him right now. We have both changed a lot; he is really wanting to live more of a straight life. Dealing with as a hypothetical situation and getting mad at a hypothesis is ridiculous, really. I know a lot of it is just being tired and kind of stressed from all of the changes, even good ones, in the last three months. thanks you guys for all your responses. And thanks for all your congrats on the engagement. We are planning a very small celebration that we can afford and are wanting to do it very soon.
|
|
|
Post by murdock on Mar 9, 2008 12:42:49 GMT -5
This is a tough one. I think that he shouldn't make promises about how many drinks he is going to have with friends. Being trashed all the time is not attractive... but to hold someone to a rule of "you can only have two beers" is going to bite you in the ass. Social drinking I am all for.... but I wouldn't hang out with heroin addicts so I understand why you don't want to be around it. Alcoholism is something every drinker faces. Keeping it under "control" is something we all think we can do... but every time you pick up a drink you are playing with fire.
|
|
|
Post by sheyd on Mar 9, 2008 13:20:44 GMT -5
He has said he doesn't want to get into heavy drinking again... his bio Mom and Dad were big drunks, his adoptive Dad was an ex-drunk, and he drank a lot when he was younger. ... drinking will never be a big priority for him again. This is what stands out for me. He HAD an issue with drinking in the past - enough that he made it a priority. He has a family history of alcoholism (and it IS a genetic trait). It has obviously caused problems with you two in the past. I think he would be naive to assume you would be just happy with "it won't be a big deal now". Maybe after a few years, when he has shown that he only goes out and gets plastered once or twice a year, you will be able to relax. I would have the same feelings as you, though - this HAS been a problem, and if he feels it should be treated casually, it can easily become a problem again. As for cheating when he is drunk... I had a bf once who said "no, I didn't cheat when I was so drunk" - but he couldn't remember what DID happen. So I asked, how do you KNOW you didn't if you can't remember? His answer - "my friends would have told me" - TOLD you??? After the fact? The truth is, we do stupid things we would NOT normally do when drunk. Do you trust his friends to keep him safe for you? That would go a long way with me. If he has a good solid friend who wouldn't let him do stupid things when he is drunk - someone you trust... that would make it easier. I guess I still don't understand why getting drunk should be necessary. Shey
|
|
|
Post by kittenhart on Mar 9, 2008 14:43:59 GMT -5
To those that have always drank, it seems like making a big deal out of nothing, but I just don't feel comfortable having people getting drunk in my home, or with it being a big part of my life. Prairie, I have always had alcohol as a part of my family and social events and I don't think you are making a big deal out of nothing. I think it's very important that you talk about these things now, before you get married, and work out how you both think things should be. It does strike me as a little odd though, that you don't like the idea of him going out with the guys drinking (and granted I agree with other posters that he should have outgrown the binge drinking thing at his age) but yet you say you are uncomfortable with him drinking in your home....so where is he allowed to drink then? Never? If he is a alcoholic that has sworn off of alcohol completely, then I guess that might work. Otherwise, I see this turning into a very real power issue. You two need to discuss this (as a team) before the wedding. Seriously. Do not put it off. Just because V has been successfully drinking here and there on a casual basis and hasn't relapsed into the heavy drinking so far, doesn't mean it couldn't happen....but also, I am not convinced that even genetic alcoholics have to be completely dry for life to not relapse. I think it really depend not only on that person, but on the whole dynamics of the family situation. But you are right: I need to trust him right now. We have both changed a lot; he is really wanting to live more of a straight life. Dealing with as a hypothetical situation and getting mad at a hypothesis is ridiculous, really. I really do think he has probably outgrown the "drinking benders with the boys" thing....that is for people much younger and I really think getting mad at him about a hypothetical like this is a bit unfair...there is also no reason to assume that just because he does get drunk he is going to cheat on you....they are two separate things. You don't want to be aligning them. Keep them separate so that in his mind....if he abuses alcohol and falls back into the heavy drinking he is cheating himself out of the freedom he had from a chemical controlling him....not cheating you out of the control you are exerting over him....(don't go there at all...it's a slippery path). Having lived with an anorexic in my family I want to also add this: The words you use to talk about alcohol (food) are more important than you may realize. It may be best to talk about V having a "strained and difficult" relationship with alcohol (food) rather than just labelling him outright as an "alcoholic"...it makes the issue seem more "addressable" sometimes to not think of it as a "disease". And it changes the spin on some of power and control issues. Khart
|
|