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Post by ionysis on Feb 24, 2008 0:36:51 GMT -5
It's been better this weekend. I actually went the whole weekend without hysterically crying once.
I did shed a few tears on Friday evening but managed to pull myself up and get back on track.
I saw him on Wednesday for a quick lunch - he was late as usual but I refrained from commenting and we had a nice time. I'm slowly learning and trying to get into the habit of pausing, reflecting and thinking whether I REALLY want to say whatever it is I'm about to come out with. I got so much into the habit of being disapointed or angry with everything he did that it's actually a hard mental habit to break. I know it is one of the things he finds most challenging to deal with - when I nag or am snappy too much - it stops him from feeling close to me and makes him close off so I'm trying to contain it.
Met for lunch on Friday. He told me on the phone that he was "tired" and that he "forgot to take his pills". Actually he was drunk and hungover. He isn't supposed to drink with his meds. For obvious reasons I'm INCREDIBLY sensitive to him lying to me - about anything, even the tiniest omissions. It bothered me. He knew it. I didn't labour the point.
Friday night we went out for dinner. I'd bought a new bag and shoes and got dressed up. He turned up in jeans. I asked him to book at table at the new Brazillian restaurant - it was full and he didn't bother to book anything else. He offered to take me to the same restaurant he took his "friend" Amina to the previous week (a sore subject). Except when he took her he was wearing decent trousers and had actually booked a table....
You can see where this is leading can't you...
I cried, said I felt like he never made an effort with me, that we'd talked about that before and he wasn't showing any sign of changing things...
He said he HAD made an effort - shaved, showered, brushed his hair, was wearing the sweater I bought him - it just didn't show much. He was kind. I was somewhat mollified. We had dinner. In places good, in places a little tense. He was tired and wanted to go home to bed early. He asked me to stay over (just to cuddle as usual - no physical reconciliation yet). I wasn't tired so chose to go out and meet friends for a drink and let myself in to his later on.
It worked well. I went and saw my girlfriends, went back to his and snuggled up. Woke up in the morning, had bacon sandwiches together and watched a movie. It was almost like old times. We were relaxed with each other. It felt good.
Did our own thing in the afternoon then met up for a game of tennis. Parted on very good terms and he is even coming round to mine this evening to watch some TV and sit on the sofa. PLUS he has PLANNED stuff to do with me this week: tennis Wednesday and special dinner at a French restaurant on Friday.
Even better, he told me what my belated birthday present is - he has commissioned copies of two Dennis Hopper paintings for me. We went to the Hopper exhibition at the tate Modern in London years ago and I put some prints up in our bedroom when we redecorated. It is those same wroks which he is having painted for me. AT LAST - a thoughful and even (dare I say it) romantic gesture!!!!! Progress? I don't know, but it really felt good.
I feel more relaxed after this weekend. Very slowly I am starting to almost believe he might really be back and really be trying. It is such early days but I think we did make progress this weekend. If I can stave off the defensiveness and automatic negativity and he can try not to let his anxiety get the better of him we might begin to spiral upwards instead of down. I do hope so. We'll have to see what the next week has in store.
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Post by sheyd on Feb 24, 2008 1:01:15 GMT -5
I really like that you still went out with the girls - you keep that full life going. I am glad you are keeping your connections, trying to keep your head, etc. Keep hold of YOU - the rest will be ok no matter what then!
Shey
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Post by ionysis on Feb 24, 2008 3:49:45 GMT -5
Thanks Shey, you're right, I'm trying to keep my life and fit him into it rather than focus too much on him like I did before. We used to live in each others pockets and that was part of the problem. I've got three weekend getaways planned with the girls and I make sure I see them as often as I can - they are so important to me. It keeps me balanced having them around and means I get a bit of perspective.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 1, 2008 13:16:13 GMT -5
Ok, another weekend down. Things still seem to be going OK.
Dinner again this Friday. Went well. Tennis saturday, watched a movie.
I was able to be relaxed and happy and when minor things bugged me I was irritated for a minute then was able to just let it go. He is being considerate and sweet. We are getting on well.
I had two issues which kept coming into my head repeatedly which I brought up in a sensible fashion ans we discussed. The first was that he is very wary of kissing me and that makes me feel bad. I told him that and he explained it - if he kisses me then he wants to kiss me more, then he gets turned on and it all starts spiralling which at the moment is what we are trying to steer clear from. We are keeping sex out of things and trying to get on without emotional upheaval and without having to add handling sex as well as everything else. That made sense to me but I said that I would apprecaite it if we could draw the line AFTER kissing rather than before it because it would make me happier. He agreed.
The other thing is that he isn't bothered by the thought of me seeing other men. That kind of upset me because it makes me feel like he doesn't want me, or doesn't feel like he wants me to be his. He said that right now he just wants me to be happy and relaxed and if I want to see other people he is OK with it. The main reason being that he knows I love him and he knows I only want him so he doesn't find other men threatening. He said that if I was to see Nick (the guy I dated for a few months when we were apart) he WOUD be bothered because he knows I really liked him and found him attractive. That kind of makes sense to me too.
So all good. Except.....
because everything is going well and we are taking about things and feel like we are getting closer I am starting to feel that delerious, overwhelming, adoration again. Everytime I look at him or touch him I feel like I could drown in his eyes and life could gladly end in a second if it could ony be as he held me and told me he loved me.
I know this feeling and it is DANGEROUS. It is one small step from here to oblivion and total devastation if he leaves me again.
I guess I am just still really scared.
My flatmate moved out on Thursday and much as I love having the place to myself it is a little bit more lonely. Having him back in my life is SO good and is getting better all the time. But that makes it much more frightening to imagine what it would ebe like if he left me again.
I guess I just have to be very strict about keeping up my own life and interests and not putting too much into him again. Its ike waking a tightrope.
I haven't mentioned yet to my mother or cosest friends back in London that I'm seeing so much of him again.... I'm afraid of what they will say - and of ooking even more of a fool if he leaves again.
Lets see how the next 2 months go. May is the crunch date for me. We've tentatively planned a weekend vacation to Morocco. I want us to sleep together then. That wil be five months o just "seeing how we work" which, in my view is enough to determine whether or not things are working.
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Post by gdgross on Mar 3, 2008 18:39:45 GMT -5
As far as the seeing other men bit...
When my ex wife left, she started seeing other guys. Casually; as far as I know she didn't sleep with any of them, but what the hell do I know? I didn't pry into her life and I gave her space. I didn't put up a fuss about it because I wanted her to discover on her own that it was me she really wanted. I pretended it didn't bother me. I don't know if that is the case for your ex or not, but there could be more going on than simply him not wanting you to be his.
I wanted my ex back more than anything and I did everything in my power to try and affect that change, including not pressuring her into exclusivity with me. Perhaps your ex has a similar mindset? I don't know, I'm just saying that there may be more to his thinking that what you've said.
Whether that was the best course of action is open for debate. My ex never came back, nor made any indication that she wanted to.
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Post by lumpy on Mar 3, 2008 18:46:17 GMT -5
When my ex wife left, she started seeing other guys. Casually; as far as I know she didn't sleep with any of them, but what the hell do I know? I didn't pry into her life and I gave her space. I didn't put up a fuss about it because I wanted her to discover on her own that it was me she really wanted. I pretended it didn't bother me. I don't know if that is the case for your ex or not, but there could be more going on than simply him not wanting you to be his. I wanted my ex back more than anything and I did everything in my power to try and affect that change, including not pressuring her into exclusivity with me. Perhaps your ex has a similar mindset? I don't know, I'm just saying that there may be more to his thinking that what you've said. Whether that was the best course of action is open for debate. My ex never came back, nor made any indication that she wanted to. Not sure it applies to Ionysis's sitch or not, but I do think you took the correct course of action. To me, pressuring is a losing game. You can't make up someone's mind for them. I believe that if your ex truly wanted to come back, she'd do so of her own volition.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 9, 2008 1:37:02 GMT -5
This weekend was BAD.
He was really busy at work this week so didn't call or email the way he has been before. That was fine. I did my thing and chatted on the phone with him a little, I was sympathetic. I know he gets tunnel vision when he’s stressed about work and I’m somewhat the same myself so I don’t hold it against him. BUT I did say (jokingly but I meant it) that he’d better make it up to me!
So we planned to spend the day together on Friday. He was going racing with his friend in Dubai on Thursday night and I knew he’d drink quite a bit. I was in Dubai anyway seeing family. We agreed to meet fro brunch at 10.30 ish on Friday morning – he said he’d call me when he woke up.
10am, no call. 10.30am no call. 11am no call. I kept calling his phone but it just went straight to voicemail. By 11.30 I was so upset I got in my car and drove back to Abu Dhabi. I had been looking forward to seeing him and spending the day with him so much. I hadn’t seen him all week and I had a really bad experience on Wednesday night with a supposed “friend” of mine which shook me up quite badly so I just felt like I needed to be taken care of a little bit. It doesn’t often happen that I feel like that.
Anyway on the way back I called his friend who told me “Yeah, I came home at 1am but Richard wanted to go on somewhere so he went on to another bar on his own. I got up early this morning but I don’t know if he was back then or not and his door is still shut”. Now given the fact that he has on occasions in the past gone out on his own to bars, drinking and ended up taking prostitutes home I was absolutely devastated.
He finally called me at 3.45pm once his phone was recharged. I didn’t pick up and he called repeatedly. I finally called him back around 6pm when I thought I was calm enough to talk to him. I wasn’t. I was furious and incredibly upset. His phone had run out of batteries and he had got drunk and overslept. But why couldn’t he have borrowed his friend’s phone and called me to apologize? We had a huge row – he was sorry but didn’t think he’d done that much wrong. He thought I’d overreacted by driving home when we could just have met up for lunch a little later and had a good day together - maybe I did but I'm still sensitive - how could I not be? The guy fell in love with a 24 year old in the 5 weeks I wasn't with him when we emigrated, left me 8 weeks before our wedding, tried to start a relationship with the 24 year old for months while still telling me he loved me, slept with prostitutes and broke my heart into tiny pieces - of course I'm going to f*cking overreact at times when I feel like he's treating me like crap again.
I thought he was being unacceptably blasé about something which wasn’t only rude but also, I felt, showed a monumental lack of respect and thought for me at a time when he ought to be doing his utmost to make me feel special – given everything he’s done to me. I left Dubai and went to have lunch with a girlfriend because I had no idea how long I would have to hang around waiting to hear from him – indefinitely? And why should I?
Anyway we talked and I still felt bad. I was supposed to be seeing him in the evening but went out for dinner with friends instead but said I’d meet him at my apartment after dinner and we could spend the night together. We have had numerous discussions about how I feel he does nothing to make me feel cared for or special so I hoped he might do something nice for me for when I got back from dinner. Well, I called him on my way home and he wasn’t even back from the mall yet – at 11.30. I got home to an empty apartment and 15 minutes later he deigned to show up. Once again, I was so disappointed and felt completely worthless. I was angry, upset and tearful.
Is it too much to ask that he makes the slightest effort to show me he cares or that he is thinking of me? Is it too much to ask that he makes some sort of gesture towards trying to make me smile? I got nothing for Valentines Day and I haven’t so much as had a bunch of flowers since he came back into my life. We’ve been out for dinner but it hasn’t been something he has booked or arranged FOR me, it’s been a mutual thing. Despite the fact that he knows how much it would mean to me he hasn’t even tried.
He also still won’t kiss me. We had the conversation last weekend (again) that it really hurts me when I move to kiss him and he moves away and that he doesn’t want to kiss me properly. We agreed that we would kiss, although we’d still not sleep together but he expresses not the slightest desire to kiss me at all. It breaks my heart every time I see him. The last few days I feel on the verge of tears quite a lot. I know we have to take things slowly but this isn’t going slowly it isn’t going anywhere. We aren’t getting closer physically, we aren’t spending more time together and I am certainly not feeling loved or valued at all right now.
He wanted me to lose weight and get fitter. I have exercised 5 days a week for the last 5 weeks. I have had my teeth whitened, I have had microdermabrasion, I have cut and coloured my hair, I have bought new clothes. I have lost 2 inches from my hips and waist and an inch from each thigh so far. He wanted me to be relaxed and happy and not pressure him. In the last three weeks before this weekend I haven’t complained about one single thing, I have been loving and kind and sweet on the phone to him, I have teased and joked with him and have avoided making an issue out of anything until this weekend.
What has he done that I wanted and needed? I said I needed him to be very honest and open with me and tell me what he was feeling all the time. I still feel kept in the dark and there is so much he isn't sharing with me. I needed him to be loving and make me feel special. He doesn’t. I needed to see that he finds me physically attractive even though we agreed not to have sex. He won’t even kiss me.
I feel like my heart is breaking all over again. Everything is still so raw inside me from the things he did to me last year and on top of that, just like before, I am starting to feel as though I am totally worthless as a person. I feel ugly and needy and emotionally vulnerable to someone who just wants to back away from me and who can’t be bothered to make the smallest romantic gesture despite how easy it would be to do so. Who can’t even be bothered to get up on time to meet me, who, despite knowing how much it hurt me when he went out drinking alone and f*cked whores before will still go out drinking alone until 3am. How little respect for my feelings does he have? How could he do that, he must know how I’d feel.
He hasn’t changed. I haven’t changed enough not to care that he is the same. I can’t stop crying.
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Post by Phoenixx on Mar 9, 2008 4:59:33 GMT -5
Your posts echo so much pain. I read your words and see someone crying out for love and attention from someone she gives love and attention to, to get back what she gives.
I am not going to tell you what to do...I'm just going to ask....How long will you keep waiting, Ion? How long will these tears last?
You did not over-react at all. There is nothing I hate more than rearranging MY day for someone and then being DISRESPECTED in that sense. He rang at 3.45pm? When you were supposed to meet at 10.30? As my sister would say "Oh HELL no."
As for the lack of romantic gestures...sometimes guys express their love in different ways. For example, my ex wasn't huge on the romantic gestures, which sometimes hurt, but I knew he'd always, ALWAYS be there for me. Do you know he loves you? Can you look into your heart and see, truly, if he loves you? We can pass judgement, but only you know him and only you know what lies between you two.
Loving someone is admirable. Your heart is so huge and you have so much love to give. Maybe you need to give that love to yourself. You lose weight and change yourself, your style, your hair, your personality. Does he know the gem you are? Do you even recognise yourself? Why are you moulding yourself into the image he wants you to be, rather than who you are?
I really believe in forgiveness. I am trying to travel that road myself. But I am realising that forgiving does not mean giving someone the chance to hurt me again, or to continue hurting me.
I hope I dont come off in any negative way. You were such a support to me in my first days at Ojar, and its saddening to see such a spirit hurt in such a way for so long. I'm keeping you in my thoughts. I hope your equilibrium is not far....if anyone deserves peace, its you.
((HUGS))
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Post by Saucy on Mar 9, 2008 5:30:59 GMT -5
ugh this dude straight up irritates the fuck outta me. and the fact that he wont even kisss you. ugh.
i hate to be negative on this, but he's a fken jerk. REGARDLESS if he's stressed out from work, he should atleast take the courtesy to contact you and let you know he can't possibly fulfill his plans. atleast a text.(if any)
i hope you shake this. you definitly ARE puttinng YOUR own self on the line here.
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Post by redskyatnight on Mar 9, 2008 8:31:10 GMT -5
I would be upset too and then wondering if I had a right to be upset. He had a responsibility to call you and he didn't. He expected you to be available for him when he was ready without understanding how his lack of responsibility affected you. He told you that your actions were wrong (driving back home) I'm thinking his actions were wrong.
I'm sorry for all the pain this is causing you. As much as you tried to protect your heart, he snuck back in there and is breaking it again.
You have overlooked some of behaviors that bothered you, but this is one behavior you can not overlook or accept. He is asking you to accept it. What do you need? The things you have overlooked will not get better and it soundsl like this guy is pushing the limit to see how much you will take. Its like kids. They will get away with whatever they can. They will push the boundries to see what is acceptable. If they get away with it, they will push the boundries again. This guy is pushing the boundries.
What do you need to happen for this relationship to work? This is a tough question to answer because it changes, and only you can answer it. Take some time to think about it, write it down, read it outloud, think a little more.
My heart feels for you.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 9, 2008 9:10:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.
I still think that the problems are almost as much with me as with him. If I was strong and positive - correction - when I feel strong and positive I don't get like this. He can't hurt me, the things he does (and especially the things he DOESN'T do) don't bother me like this. When I feel weak and vulnerable, like when I'm tired or hung over or a little depressed they cut me to the core. Maybe that is because those times I expect something from him and I don't get it. When I expect nothing I'm happy because I'm not constantly disappointed. But is that fair?
If I was married for 15 years I would say to myslef "Look, you are stuck with this person and this situation - you have to make YOURSELF happy with him because you have no choice". But I'm not in that situation. I DO have a choice. I can choose to go find someone else who is prepared to put some effort into making me feel special and into showing me he loves me. I can go and find someone who does give me what I need.
Or I can get a better grip of myself.
I suppose I just have ups and downs like everyone else. I'm strong for a while then I get weak again and that is when the wheels fall off. Maybe I just need to try and be stronger more consistently.
It just feels like he will only love me when I don't need him to. When I need him to show me he loves me the most are the times he shuts me off, holds himself away from me, won't be intimate with me and twists everything to make me feel like I'm neurotic, wingeing, irrational and that I'M ruining the relationship by causing problems when in my mind I am only reacting to something he has done to hurt me.
How can I go through the rest of my life knowing that the times I need him the most are the times he runs away the fastest? When he has made me feel insecure by treating me poorly, being inconsiderate or going for too long without demonstarting he cares I get upset. Whenever that happens he can't cope with it and instead of reassuring me he defends his actions (which makes me furious) and he removes himself emotionally just when what I truly need is for him to do is to say "I'm sorry, I love you so much" and kiss it all away.
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Post by JimB on Mar 9, 2008 9:32:35 GMT -5
I don't think you're weak at all, Io. You've just given him your heart, and that makes you sensitive. You've also honored the commitments you've made to him, and not only is that apparently not good enough for him, but he's also selectively disregarding the commitments he's made to you.
<shrug> You're in for a lot more of this kind of thing if you stick this one out. I feel for you, but you've made your choice. It's possible that I don't understand the power of the love you feel for this flawed man, but I think it could be helpful to you if you can disaffect yourself of the notion that "love conquers all". You love this man, but you also need things he can't (or won't) currently provide, and there are no guarantees that he'll ever come around. This isn't pessimism, this is reality. Perhaps greater understanding of the reality of the situation can help you ease your pain.
Sorry if this is turning harsh again. I really do respect you for committing yourself wholeheartedly to him, despite his major scary issues. I'm just suggesting something I don't ordinarily suggest - that maybe you need to consider building up some more defense mechanisms. Because I strongly suspect this relationship is going to continue to be a roller coaster ride for you.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 10, 2008 0:00:26 GMT -5
I don't think you're being harsh JimB, I appreciate your comments. The problem is I don't know whether it is him or me. I don't know whether I'm just overreacting. I don't know if it's my fault for expecting too much, for pushing too hard, for wanting something I shouldn't want, or have no right to demand. Am I being selfish and just not be considerate enough of his mental state or his fears and issues? He told me one of the reasons he left me before was that I never gave him the chance to chase me because I was so available. He felt that I was always pushing him and so he always had to back away. But surely it shouldn't be like that? if he really cared about me he wouldn't want to keep running away from me and holding me at arms length and refusing to show me the love I want to see from the person I'm with?
I don't know. I lose my sense of what is right and wrong when I'm with him. I almost need an independent 3rd party who had talked to both of us to tell me if what I'm doing or thinking is OK or if it is unreasonably demanding.
Is it wrong to want to be romanced, to want someone to look into your eyes and tell you they love you, to want your partner to make love to you and kiss you and tell you that you are great? I feel like he wants a relationship of convenience - like an arranged marriage where not only the foundation is friendship but that is all I should want or need. I want more. I need more. I've tried to pretend I don't, tried to hold myself away, to control my emotions and play by his rules but I can only do that for so long until I crumble. having affection and love and intimacy witheld from me indefinitely is so hard to bear.
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Post by kittenhart on Mar 10, 2008 0:27:31 GMT -5
Is it wrong to want to be romanced, to want someone to look into your eyes and tell you they love you, to want your partner to make love to you and kiss you and tell you that you are great? I feel like he wants a relationship of convenience - like an arranged marriage where not only the foundation is friendship but that is all I should want or need. I want more. I need more. Ion, It is not wrong to want these things....everyone wants this. You deserve more than he will ever be able to give you. He is not capable of giving you these things because he is damaged himself....(I've said this before, I'm sure, because your situation is a bit similar to how mine was, in some ways)... You can not continue to be angry at him for not being able to give you what you need when he simply isn't capable of it....and probably never will be....that kind of resentment will eat you up inside. So either you give up your own needs or you leave him and look for someone who wants the same things that you want.... but to stay with him and keep hoping he will change, that if you are dedicated enough to him....he will eventually come around....that it's always your fault for not trying hard enough, not being what he wants, being "too available", or whatever other BS he serves up......this is a sad and futile exercise of your patience & love, and unless you like being a martyr on some level, you will eventually realize that all this time with him has been kind of wasted. I don't mean to sound jaded or heartless. I do still believe in true love. It just kills me to read your posts, Ionysis, because I have so been in the emotional place where you are at. I wish I could believe that your reconciliation will work out. I really do, hun. But it's not looking like he's changed very much.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 10, 2008 0:28:06 GMT -5
Maybe I'm co-dependent. Or perhaps I am normal and am just in an unhealthy relationship with someone who doesn't really love me thus turing me into a basket-case? Argh! I'm going round in circles - you men out there - am I normal or am I a demanding psycho bitch from hell who is uneasonably hounding a guy for moe than he should be expected to give?
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