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Post by ionysis on Mar 25, 2008 9:44:22 GMT -5
JimB you are quite right, and that is exactly the problem and the point of my second post. I have a smothering need to have him "prove" his love to me. And it hasn't just been with him - my recurring complaint with every boyfriend I've ever had has been a tendancy to bleat "but he doesn't make me feel SPECIAL" after the honeymoon period has worn off and to be always unsatisfied with the level of attention and dedication I recieve from my mate.
I think this may stem from being the only child of an unhappy marriage in which I was my mother's entire world and the only focus of her life and where my father was (and still is) an emotional retard incapable of expressing affection.
When I am on my own I am smart, controlled and relatively well balanced. When I'm with him I turn into this neurotic mess who just wants to cry "love me, love me, love me" all the time. Given the history of the relationship I have huge trust issues, abandonment problems and a terrible fear that he doesn't love me "enough" or "in the right way".
I have no idea why I have such a terror of that in my subconsious - my conscious mind seems to be able to rationalise it and deal with it OK. I did just fine without him after a few months of no contact and really enjoyed the single life. My life right now is incredibly full, varied and satisfying with plenty of interesting challenges, great friends and a healthy life work balance. I'm not dependent on him for anything vital to my well being - I have money, social interaction, stimulation and love from friends and family. I CHOSE to strcutrure my life in that way deliberately because after we broke up I realised how unhealthily obsessive I'd been in the relationship only focusing on him to the detriment of all other aspects of life.
I wish I could address these issues I have more effectively but I'm just not sure how to start learning how to control these deep seated anxieties. I don't want to be this person. I hate that at the moment the smallest things can send me into a hysteria of sobbing or screaming anger. I never used to be this bad. I don't know if it is residual resentment, fear of being hurt again, fear of being alone, fundamental neediness, or what.
One thing that has helped me think things through is my psychiatrist telling me today that one of the side effects of the meds I'm on for my ADHD (strattera) is extreme irritability, crying fits, anger and even in some cases suicidal thoughts (yeah, thanks for telling me that before I started taking it!!!!) Also part of the problem with having ADHD is a constant need for attention and external stimulation. I'm hoping that when I get my combination of meds right that will help me deal with the problems I'm having.
R has issues to work through too. He is on meds for his anxiety disorder and has emotional armour plating which could deflect a hand grenade. However his meds seem to be working very well right now (we have the same psych) which is enabling him to have the patience to deal with the situation, which he never had before. Although that dosn't help the emotional coldness - which of course if exacerbated by my volatility and desperate need for constant reassurance.
I guess we both just need to keep re-orientating and trying to move in the right direction. Despite everything I am certainly learning a huge amount about myself, my problems and my weaknesses and that can only be a good thing, no matter how painful the process. I'm willing to admit my problems and try to rectify them.
My vents on here are humiliating for me. I work myself up to the point where I am sobbing or in a fit of anger and pouring it out here seems to give me back some control and stop the flood. I just need to try to develop coping techniques which stop it before it escalates to that pitch.
Sheyd, I think I must feel like your daughter - sometimes I wish someone would come and restrain me! And I too just want to scream and scream and scream and say "I don't want to do the work, I can't, it's too HARD!" and want to be pandered to and for someone to just make it all go away. You are right not to do that with her. If she doesn't learn to control the negative spirals and the emotional rollercoaster she'll end up to be like me. Although it is odd because I was incredibly obedient and self-contained when I was a little girl.
I wonder of any of us could really be described as "normal" in truth but sometimes I am so disappointed in myself for being such a mess. How the hell I've managed to hack out a sucessful career while being so dysfunctional God only knows!
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Post by ionysis on Mar 25, 2008 9:46:41 GMT -5
Thank you Khart - I appreciate your post, I KNOW I'm boring everyone and you are all despairing of me (Kermie, I'm sorry to crash all over your board) but it does help to be able to write all this out of me. Even if you guys don't read or reply I think it's the catharsis that helps and lets me analyse my feelings rather than be overwhelmed by them. But I appreciate all of you being bothered to read this self-absorbed drivel.
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Post by lumpy on Mar 25, 2008 9:48:41 GMT -5
I think this may stem from being the only child of an unhappy marriage in which I was my mother's entire world and the only focus of her life and where my father was (and still is) an emotional retard incapable of expressing affection. Mom?
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Post by sheyd on Mar 25, 2008 9:50:59 GMT -5
I happen to believe I'm at my healthiest when I'm in a relationship not because I need to be, but because I choose to be. In my mind, it's a much higher compliment to pay my partner to say I want her than it is to say I need her. IMO, being "needed" puts unnecessary pressure on a relationship. Although I DO agree with this to a large extent, I think you have to step back and realize, that you also must WANT to be in that relationship. He admitted that there will always be things ahead of her. His behavior has also shown this. HIS needs come first, HIS desires, HIS healing - and she is the tool to his healing, not a separate person whose needs and desires are as important as his own. Jim, you CHOOSE to be in that relationship, you CHOOSE to make her a priority, you CHOOSE to consider it valuable - this guy isn't. The best that can be said about what he is doing is that he is staying. However, his reasons and actions in staying are completely selfish. Ionysis... Yes, you DO need to heal from this neediness. He DOES need to heal from his closed-off self. However, you will get WORSE, not better, if he continues to not make YOU a priority. All you are proving is that you can roll over and take being abandonned and used, every day you stay there. He is staying there, but he isn't doing the work. He isn't showing the priority, he isn't giving he is only taking. How is this helping him? All he is learning is that he doesn't HAVE to open up - he still gets what he wants. You are learning it doesn't matter how much control you have, you will still never get the affection and attention you need. These are NOT good lessons - you are not healing, either of you. I'm sorry - I know it will take quite some time to see this, but unless he is REALLY willing to work on it (and nothing you have said leads me to believe he will) this won't get better, for either of you. Can you not see this is poisoning you? Can you not see that your willingness to take the shreds is poisoning him? He has no expectations on him, nothing to live up to, he knows he "has you". You can't be what he needs. You can't be what he needs, Ionysis, no matter how much control you learn. He can't be what you want him to be. He can't be what you need. It isn't in him, it isn't in who he is. You keep holding on for when this miraculous change will occur for him. It won't. He may change, but at the heart of it he is still who he is. You recognized that after your first big breakthrough talk. You KNOW that in your heart, but you keep trying to hold on to this dream that will not EVER come true. You DO realize that - you just keep holding on. As for your counselor - you realize the advice was YOU BOTH have to - you only have control over your half. ASK your counselor if they think HE is working hard on those things. I don't believe he actually is. Read the part again in your first post about them coming back in guilt and desire to have that adoration back. That is him, right now. He is SAYING some of what he needs to to keep you there - but what are his actions? How much REAL effort IS he putting into this? Be honest, with yourself, with him, with your counselor. It isn't easy, but it can be done. You DO need to heal, but ask yourself if you can while you are in THIS relationship - as it REALLY is? Shey
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Post by ionysis on Mar 25, 2008 9:52:57 GMT -5
C'mon Lumpy - always blame the parents, as Larkin said: They f*ck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you. But they were f*cked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another's throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don't have any kids yourself.
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Post by lumpy on Mar 25, 2008 10:00:54 GMT -5
C'mon Lumpy - always blame the parents, as Larkin said: I only meant to imply that your upbringing was very similar to my mother's. Only child of an overly involved mother, etc, etc.
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Post by kittenhart on Mar 25, 2008 10:01:22 GMT -5
I think this may stem from being the only child of an unhappy marriage in which I was my mother's entire world and the only focus of her life and where my father was (and still is) an emotional retard incapable of expressing affection. Maybe....but I was needy like this (maybe not to this extent but still...it was bad) and my parents are happy, and love me, and did a good job in not spoiling me (or so I like to think) ... one of the side effects of the meds I'm on for my ADHD (strattera) is extreme irritability, crying fits, anger and even in some cases suicidal thoughts (yeah, thanks for telling me that before I started taking it!!!!) Also part of the problem with having ADHD is a constant need for attention and external stimulation. I'm hoping that when I get my combination of meds right that will help me deal with the problems I'm having. How bad is your ADHD without meds? Do you really find the pills are worth the side effects? Just playing devil's advocate, because you seem a bit reactive. I don't have ADHD, but I work with people who have it.....some medicated and some not.....the meds seem like a bit of a crap shoot whether they help or not.
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Post by freckles on Mar 25, 2008 10:04:16 GMT -5
We were talking about OW. He said he never thought about her any more. I said "really, never?". He looked at me and said "really, there is only one person who really matters in my life". And I smiled at him and I was so happy because he hadn't said anything like that to me for so long. And he said "I know... I'm selfish..." Then I suddenly realised that he meant himself - not me at all. And I felt like something inside me died all over again. And so he tried to explain. He said "You see you NEED me but I don't need you. I'm everything to you but I don't need any woman. There will always be things which are more important than you". And again I'm lying here in bed sobbing my heart out. Again. And I keep thinking "If I just give it time, if I give him the space to come to me, if I smile all the time and try to make him relaxed and happy maybe he will love me, eventually. Maybe he will try to make me happy, maybe he will be able to hold me and make love to me like he used to. Maybe he will look at me again the way he did in the beginning." I can't go on, I can't. At Christmas I had almost escaped this terrible cage of torture and now I'm right back inside with my heart being torn to shreds again and again and again. And I can't get away. With one hand he is offering me the possibility of living a life with the only person I've ever loved and with the other he is stabbing me over and over everytime I reach towards him. Tonight I just want it all to stop. For the whole world to stop. I can't take this, I can't believe after over a year and a half I am still allowing myself to be wracked with pain like this. Is it me? Should these things not bother me? Should I be able to be impervious to this pain, to shrug it off, to block it out? Am I a freak as he thinks I am to feel like I do, to love him so much, to ache for him to love me so badly? Why do I feel this way when he feels nothing? Oh please someone tell me what to do! I need someone right now to hold me and love me and just make everything alright. I want my mother, but I can't go to her because she doesn't know I'm back in this trap. No one knows. No one can help me. No one can make this pain go away except him. He says he loves me but he won't help me or take away this pain. How can he not try to stop hurting me? How can he keep doing it? Why is he doing this to me? I can Help You Dr Laura Slessenger says * That both People in a reltionship should give the Gift of thier Love to each other. Give themselves to each other Want to Please/Help/Care for/love the other Person Be excited to see each other Want to be warm to the other person Want to Care about the other person In Sex the same way In Life the same way In Sickness/Bad health the same way Thats all there is to it
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Post by freckles on Mar 25, 2008 10:06:05 GMT -5
P.S. If one of the People in the Relationship does not want to be like that
they are a immature selfish brat
They need to mature
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Post by sheyd on Mar 25, 2008 10:06:34 GMT -5
Ionysis - I think in some ways you ARE like my daughter - and like me, too. I am also one who wants to be shown affection all the time, physical and verbal. I got over wanting/needing romance, but I am still highly affected by touch or verbals. I too chose (twice) men who are closed off. There is a high in getting them to share anything of themselves. Feeling like "I know him and others don't".
I have another friend, like me, like you. She had trouble too - until she found a man who is VERY affectionate. He shows love, affection - and lo and behold, her clingy issues went away. He doesn't like to feel pressured any more than any other man - but he never needed to be. Amazing thing about abandonment issues - if you would actually BE with someone who doesn't threaten to run away (even emotionally), you are less scared of being abandoned.
As for being like Kor - wanting to be restrained... that is part of why you stay, too - you want HIM to restrain you. You want HIM to fix you - and he can't. It wouldn't even be good if he did. But asking yourself to "be restrained" in a situation where even a healthy person would have trouble - that is asking too much. That is like me keeping Kori awake or waking her up so she has LESS sleep, then letting her sister pick on her, then me getting fed up, and her daddy not being willing to take her on his weekend - then saying "don't have a fit, now!" You NEED to heal, but it starts by being in a healthier place to start with!
Shey
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Post by Phoenixx on Mar 25, 2008 10:36:19 GMT -5
Shey - you always express yourself so amazingly well....I always love to read your posts....!!
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Post by JimB on Mar 25, 2008 12:51:57 GMT -5
I'm willing to admit my problems and try to rectify them. Yes you are. Perhaps too much so. It occurs to me that your awareness of your own "flaws" may be leading you to some faulty logic when it comes to your relationship. Kudos to you for recognizing that you have issues, and for being willing to work towards becoming a better, happier person. But IMO you're taking too much of this upon yourself. Let's go back to needs for a minute. I'm not really willing to accept that your need for a partner to put you at the absolute top of his priority list represents an internal problem you have to correct. It's just one of your needs, and for the time being, not a negotiable one. Yes, there are people who would find that need to be unreasonable, but that is true of every need any of us have, with the exception of the basic human needs of food, clothing and shelter. And perhaps you'd like this particular need to be less pressing, over time. But for the moment, it's strong - perhaps the strongest relationship-related need you have. My point is if you simply accept this need as part of your core being, your entire perspective on the situation changes. You'll realize that your willingness to internalize your need and treat it as a flaw has simply been justifying his inability to meet it. If you see yourself as so flawed that you can't be with anyone you choose, you'll cling to what you have, regardless of the proof your senses provide that he can't provide what you need. The women in my family are internalizers. They seem to believe their own needs are somehow less important than those of others, so they take on the responsibility of overcoming their needs - "being strong". There are advantages to this approach, perhaps, but I've seen the drawbacks first hand. It can lead to increased tolerance and acceptance, but seldom to happiness. You've demonstrated over and over again your willingness to bend over backwards to please him, even when his requests (IMO) cross the line of reasonableness. This constant tinkering with yourself is starting to sound more and more like an effort to mold yourself into his ideal partner, rather than your own ideal person. Fine, if that's what you want, but I assure you it'll never make you happy.
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Post by ionysis on Mar 25, 2008 13:41:16 GMT -5
I'm willing to admit my problems and try to rectify them. Yes you are. Perhaps too much so. My point is if you simply accept this need as part of your core being, your entire perspective on the situation changes. You'll realize that your willingness to internalize your need and treat it as a flaw has simply been justifying his inability to meet it. If you see yourself as so flawed that you can't be with anyone you choose, you'll cling to what you have, regardless of the proof your senses provide that he can't provide what you need. This constant tinkering with yourself is starting to sound more and more like an effort to mold yourself into his ideal partner, rather than your own ideal person. Fine, if that's what you want, but I assure you it'll never make you happy. But then how do I know if you are right or if this is something I should be changing? The more I read about and the more i delve into therapy the more I find things wrong with me. Are they wrong or not? I'm so confused. My ADHD is much better on the meds - I have impulse contro isues and have struggled to put in place healthy routines and to focus at work. Since I've been on the strattera I have been able to cut down the heavy partying, drinking etc. I've been more productive at work, I excercise several times a week and I'm less hyper. Its just this horible emotional instabiity and iritabiity which is difficut. My phych has advised I try to split my dosage and take half mornings and half at night. I also have to cut out alcohol entirely and make sure I get enough sleep. I'm trying. I'm really trying to get myself to a place where I'm happy with who I am and where I feel stable and productive and independent. To put the right habits in place and get a sense of balance. But its difficult. Maybe I should try this on my own again for a few months. I just don't know.
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Post by freckles on Mar 25, 2008 13:43:05 GMT -5
I wish I had a Girlfriend like you
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Post by ionysis on Mar 25, 2008 13:46:00 GMT -5
You are so sweet Freckles. I don't think you'd enjoy going out with me very much. I think I'm what they call "high maintenance"!
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