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Post by goods on Mar 26, 2008 11:29:36 GMT -5
And that is what I am realizing.
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Post by sheyd on Mar 26, 2008 11:33:03 GMT -5
Exactly, Goods... It isn't about them being bad, or you being bad, or about not willing to work at something - but about the overall health of the relationship and the people in it when they are in it. You two have a lot in common there... You may want/crave it, you may be willing to do lots of things to get there... but is "there" where you should be - even if you COULD get there?
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Post by ionysis on Mar 27, 2008 0:14:01 GMT -5
You may very well be right Shey, I don't dispute that. But I need to be in a clearer frame of mind myself to be able to judge whether that is the case or not. Having him around hasn't stopped my progress towards self-improvement. Perhaps it has made it more erratic - and certainly more emotional - but in some ways I've found it easier to give up the unhealthy excesses of my life and structure healthy routines having him around to talk to and bounce things off.
I was dating totally unsuitable people and not respecting myself, drinking and smoking too much, not working, not sleeping until the early hours most nights... Since I've started taking the right meds for my ADHD and since R is back in my life I have stopped doing that.
Regardless of the perception from what I've written here we DO understand each other extremely well and have many similarities. That in some ways is beneficial. When I slip up and end up drinking too much and feel hungover or binge eat or don't work properly I beat myself up about it but it helps to have him to talk to - he understands because he has similar weaknesses. He encourages me to get back on the horse and keep trying.
As a FRIEND he is great. The pain comes for me because I don't want a friend in him, I need more than that and I don't have the belief or confidence in him to wait for it - I'm worried that I'll wait forever and it will never come and I'm afraid if that ahppens I won't have the strength to get over it without breaking my heart again. That is why I need him to show me NOW that he will be able to be more - I have to be able to believe that he can love me the way I need him to or it is too painful to have him in my life.
There are some very negative things in the relationship but almost all of those are centred around me not being able to get over the past and me needing more than he is ready to give at the moment. Of course the other side of that is his inability to lower the walls and let me be close to him in the way which is vital to a healthy relationship. But that is a chicken and egg situation unfortunately. I can't stop being needy if he won't lower his guard, he can't feel loving if I am clingy and demanding. We have to find ways of changing the negative spiral into a positive one.
However, saying that, even when I lose it with him because I'm tired or stressed or emotionally frustrated by his unwillingness to make me feel loved in the right way he always takes my outbursts in his stride now. No matter how emotionally volatile I am he says that he is still there and he will still keep trying to make it work. That does give me a sense of balance.
His repeatedly proving that my outbursts are not driving him away is reassuring to me as it is a very different attitude to the one he had throughout our relationship when he seemed to be looking for reasons to walk away rather than for reasons to stay. It is the main thing right now which is making me able to stick around despite the doubts and the negativity and the baggage. Finally, after years of suffering from untreated depression and anxiety, I managed to persuade him to get treatment and, for the first time, in many ways he is more stable than I am.
If I truly thought that his presence in my life was more pernicious than useful to me I believe I *could* walk away. But I'm not sure of that of course - I guess most addicts would say the same thing "I can stop whenever I want". But I DID stop you see. And that is what makes me think I could do it again. I have the right supports in place should I need to. Having him back around certainly causes me more pain than not having him here but I honestly think that it is pain I am learning from. It's a pain which is helping me learn about myself and if I can work through this pain I think I will be stronger for it.
It is extremely useful to have my actions and thoughts challenged here- much more so in many ways than the sympathy, although I need that too, please don't stop! It forces me to examine other sides of the situation which I may prefer not to or may not see on my own. Like when you talk to your best friends IRL I come here when I'm hurting and venting and everything feels like the end of the world so I only illustrate the worst parts. It makes me focus on the negatives. Only when I'm challenged and questioned do I look at things more roundly.
Thanks again so much. No doubt this will not be the last thread started in sobbing desperation. But hopefully I will be able to post some positive things too - about my own progress as well as on the reconciliation.
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Post by gdgross on Mar 27, 2008 11:26:05 GMT -5
Ion, you gotta make your own decisions, of course. We are here to listen and help if we can.
It does sound an awful lot to me like you are trying really really hard to justify to all of us why you are still with him.
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Post by goods on Mar 27, 2008 11:37:40 GMT -5
It's no different than being addicted to alcohol or drugs. At least for me.
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Post by sheyd on Mar 27, 2008 11:59:33 GMT -5
First let me say - if you DO stay with him, and can work things out and get to where you are HAPPY - I will be very happy for you. All of the things I am pointing out are pretty much because you keep beating yourself up while giving him more of the benefit of the doubt than he deserves. You keep blaming yourself, trying to change yourself, trying to vilify what is in you. There are some very negative things in the relationship but almost all of those are centred around me not being able to get over the past and me needing more than he is ready to give at the moment. I disagree. The past IS something that should be considered, but worse, you have given examples where he IS repeating past behaviors. That is the trouble HE is having, he can't just wipe the slate clean and pretend he was always awesome and he wants to do that. If he is repeating behaviors that were problematic in the past, he WILL have to deal with the FACT that his past behavior affects current activities. Don't let him make you think it shouldn't. As for needing more than he is ready to give - if you NEED it - that is a need. Why is your need for affection less valid than his need for space? I don't believe your requests are unreasonable - you aren't asking to get married or have a baby right NOW. You are asking for affection. Those problems are NOT yours. He can't provide what you need. This is NOT a problem with you, and don't let it BECOME a problem with you. Affection from someone you are hoping to work on a lifetime with is NOT unreasonable. Of course the other side of that is his inability to lower the walls and let me be close to him in the way which is vital to a healthy relationship. And this IS vital. So what is HE doing to correct this? You can't fix this for him, not by modifying your own behavior, especially. You are working on dealing with your issues without any modifications on his part, but he isn't willing to conquer these in himself? That is the CRUX of what I am trying to get at. He should be working on this, not putting you off, blaming you, or getting upset when it is pointed out to him. He may not be leaving now, but he is STILL putting all the required changes on your shoulders. But that is a chicken and egg situation unfortunately. I can't stop being needy if he won't lower his guard, he can't feel loving if I am clingy and demanding. We have to find ways of changing the negative spiral into a positive one.. If you can't stop being needy with someone like him -then the question is how are you going to get better with him? If he can't feel loving when you are clingy and demanding - even if you CAN change your behavior for the most part, again I ask, what happens if you DO need to be that way for awhile. When you REALLY need him - he won't be there for you. Are you prepared for a lifetime of knowing that? Shey
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Post by JimB on Mar 27, 2008 12:34:31 GMT -5
And in the category of "most words in all caps in a single post", the winner is - Shey! ;D Io, I agree that you're still doing a lot of justifying on his behalf. But I will say this: once you've clearly defined your needs (as you must do), you are the one who gets to determine how they are met. If you've decided your partner can't, or won't, meet all your needs, it doesn't mean you have to leave him. We get into a bit of a grey area here, but I've always felt needs typically associated with a relationship can be met through other means. For example, those who have strong family ties or close friendships can meet their need for support during trying times without having to rely on their relationship. Of course, this course of action does nothing to strengthen the relationship, but it's important to be aware that there are other options besides all or nothing. Regardless, once you've defined your needs, I hope you'll be willing to examine your relationship with a somewhat critical eye. Perhaps one of your core beliefs is that your partner should be able to meet most, if not all, of your needs. Then again, perhaps you're closer to my way of thinking - that needs can be met elsewhere, within reason. The nature of your belief doesn't matter - the important part is that you trust in your belief, whatever it is, and act accordingly. There are no right or wrong answers- there are just your answers.
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