|
Post by goods on Jan 15, 2008 8:23:28 GMT -5
All of that sounds fine... is he the type of person you want in your life?
|
|
feel
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by feel on Jan 15, 2008 9:32:51 GMT -5
[font=Verdana]I loved this man more than I loved anything in my entire life, worshipped him to the point of obsession, forgave him again and again and always felt that I would never, ever love another man as long as I lived. It has taken me over a year to get to a point where I can function without hurting, to begin to trust people again.[/font][/color]
Do you really want to love someone more than yourself? Can you really want to wonder all the time if if he go back to his normal ways? Can you learn to love yourself while with him and accept the disrespect of whatever he does? Do you want to feel like you don't matter in about a year after being with him again?
These are just questions you may wnt to ask yourself...
I know you may still love him, and I know you may want to try... but you have to think about how hard it was for you to just get by day by day, minute by minute, do you remember those times??
If you can truly say to yourself after all his crying in the past to now to all the lies and the hurt and the betrayal, that you think it is a good chance you can make it, and rememeber all the stuff that was done to you that you can overcome all of it within yourself and never think back to it, then I am all for you trying again...
If you have any doubt what so ever, I beleive you are better off as you are and leave the past in the past... remember no doubt what so ever and if you are killing yourself like driving yourself crazy then it's not worth it...
I have a child with my ex and my ex is constantly in the picture and in my face adn I go thru this feeling of thinking he has changed at least 2-3 times a month, but I try my best to stay focused on me, my son and my new relationship... if it was meant to be than he would have treated me with the respect I needed before, right?
We all have feelings of wonder and we all want to try, but you are the one that knows truly and deeply if you can again!
|
|
|
Post by ionysis on Jan 15, 2008 9:43:43 GMT -5
no....I don't know.....I don't knowwwwwwwwwwwwww
I'm sitting here shaking and feeling like my chest has an iron band wrapped around it....
When I look at him I feel a sick fear and even revulsion but at the same time an irresistable flood of adoration and the desire to have him possess me utterly - body and soul and everything in between.
I can't escape the craving I have for those times when he let me near him emotionally and physically - everything inside me is obliterated except how it feels to be in that moment and it is more powerful than any drug in the world....I felt like that every single time I slept with him. He is the only man I've ever felt it with.
I feel like I've stepped into an alternate universe and my mind has just imploded...I don't feel any emotional pain I just feel........like I'm in the grip of some paralysis of anxiety which won't let me think - the whole world seems to have turned upside down.
He just called me.
Unconditional acceptance to all stipulations. Plus a request for the number of my psychiatrist so he can attend therapy as well as taking the anti-depressants he has been prescribed.
I'm stumped. I just didn't expect that at all. Especially as I told him I would entertain no conditions whatsoever from him. I simply don't know what to do now.
I need to think. For a long time - maybe a few weeks. If he is serious he won't be going anywhere. If he won't wait - well he wasn't serious.
I think I also need the nausea, the sweating, the upset tummy and the cramping pain in my upper back to go away before I'm ready to think about this objectively.
|
|
|
Post by goods on Jan 15, 2008 10:00:28 GMT -5
Well if he is serious... he needs to fix himself. PERIOD. Then, after 6 months, a year, he will be healthy enough to have a mature relationship. I really think it is a bad idea for you to be dating him until he gets his shit straight.
|
|
|
Post by sheyd on Jan 15, 2008 10:59:25 GMT -5
that he felt that he wasn't made to be married and should be alone for ever. So what is he asking for from you now, then? Be his bedmate? worshipped him to the point of obsession, forgave him again and again This is NOT a healthy relationship - irresistable flood of adoration and the desire to have him possess me utterly - body and soul and everything in between.
I can't escape the craving I have for those times when he let me near him emotionally and physically - everything inside me is obliterated except how it feels to be in that moment and it is more powerful than any drug in the world....I felt like that every single time I slept with him. He is the only man I've ever felt it with.
This is the same craving for an unhealthy drug. It isn't love, it isn't sharing, it is a chemical imbalance. You are craving that same super-unhealthy obsession - the one where He has proven time and again that he ISN'T dependable, that he isn't organised or trustworthy or steady in his commitments. He isn't well balanced or consistent, or truthful, or able to love the way I love. He makes me feel bad about myself - the way I look, the way I am. I was a different person when I was with him, I lived for him and through him, not for myself - I forgot who I was. He made me feel fat and ugly and not good enough. From the wrong family background, the wrong weight, the wrong build, the wrong dress sense, the wrong person for him. He made me feel I could never be enough. .... He hasn't done any work. And he doesn't love me. I feel it in my heart... I have enough self-respect back now to realise that what he has to offer is not something I want anymore... I don't believe he would make a good husband or father and I don't think he loves me the same way I love him. You are willing to overlook all this for that powerful drugged feeling you get when you are with him. Read up about Meth. He is your meth. He makes you high, but he is hurting you the whole time, using you up, and leaving you alone in the end. It isn't a real life. It is a drugged ignoring of the pain, while your self-esteem plummets. Even now, your body is screaming out how wrong it is - and how much you want that drug. You need to resist that. You have YOURSELF back again. It has taken me over a year to get to a point where I can function without hurting, to begin to trust people again. You are in a good place, don't lose it. You were regaining your life, your self-esteem, you were even discovering you CAN be interested in other people. Don't throw your life away for a drug (because you sure won't be for a relationship!) I think he is alone and depressed and his life is an utter shambles and that I am the only person who has ever loved him this way. I think he has realized that the grass isn't greener, that his life is utterly miserable without me in it and he can't find the fairytale replacement he was seeking so now he'll settle for me because I'm the best he can do and because I'm always there, always forgiving, always loving him. You deserve better than that. No matter how many hoops he has to jump through, he is just trying to get back that adoration and that person who lived for him. He craves that adoration like you crave the sex and the lie. He will do anything to get it back, but what happens to you once he gets you? Even if he stays faithful, he is still messed up, and there is so much trouble and lies and untruths in your past. You deserve better than this. Shey
|
|
|
Post by Magalucia on Jan 15, 2008 11:59:14 GMT -5
Ionysis,
Give yourself permission not to decide anything right now. If the single answer to all the questions that pop into your head right now is "I don't know", then that is the right answer. You do not have to do anything this minute. You do not have to make a choice right now. Give your heart some time to catch up with your head.
By the way, that iron band around your chest, sometimes I think that is your gut trying to play referee between you mind and your heart. I wonder if there is anything more painful.
You are not alone.
|
|
|
Post by JimB on Jan 15, 2008 12:30:32 GMT -5
His unconditional acceptance of your terms is actually a bigger red flag, IMO, than if he tried to negotiate. To me, it means he has lost himself completely.
I won't recommend a course of action for you, but let me reiterate that I think he needs more than a partnership between equals. If you're willing to play the role of mother as well as lover in his life, things should work out just fine.
|
|
|
Post by Magalucia on Jan 15, 2008 12:44:51 GMT -5
His unconditional acceptance of your terms is actually a bigger red flag, IMO, than if he tried to negotiate. To me, it means he has lost himself completely. quote] I agree this is a red flag, but not for the same reason JimB suggests. I think he is probably very sincere right now. I also think he is in so much pain he is willing to do anything right now to make things right. However, what happens when the pain is not so severe? What happens when he feels more like himself? People tell us the truth. We really need to listen. When he said he is not meant to be married, he told you, in the long run, he is not willing to put in the effort, to make the sacrifices necessary to be in a long-term, committed relationship with you. I think the idea that someone is not "meant" to be married is bullshit. You either are willing to do what it takes or you are not. So his unconditional acceptance is a lie to himself and to you, because it is temporary. IMHO, that is the red flag, that he is already being dishonest. Ionysis, being with someone like that is a lot of work. He will always be first. He will always be the priority for you, for him, for the relationship. Looking to a future with him with children will only magnify this, because you will have to put your children first at some point and he won't be able to do this and you and your kids will be more alone than you feel now.
|
|
feel
New Member
Posts: 12
|
Post by feel on Jan 15, 2008 14:02:09 GMT -5
I can honestly say you need to stand back...
how long ahve you been apart?
to be honest I still get the tingly feeling all over when I see my ex, but it's different it's a feeling of what we used to have that I have to focus on and he has too much bagage.
Do you really want to fall back into taking care of someone, or giving more to the relationship then the other person...
It just sounds like he had a taste of what it was like to not be with you and now he will do anything but you have to realize that you can't make him whole and fix him, he needs to want you and he needs to love himself before he can love anyone else including you!
|
|
|
Post by jules on Jan 15, 2008 14:09:12 GMT -5
Just a thought...
If not for your history together, would you (the person you are today) want to be with him (the person he is today)?
|
|
|
Post by lumpy on Jan 15, 2008 17:17:19 GMT -5
His unconditional acceptance of your terms is actually a bigger red flag, IMO, than if he tried to negotiate. To me, it means he has lost himself completely. quote] I agree this is a red flag, but not for the same reason JimB suggests. I think he is probably very sincere right now. I also think he is in so much pain he is willing to do anything right now to make things right. However, what happens when the pain is not so severe? What happens when he feels more like himself? People tell us the truth. We really need to listen. When he said he is not meant to be married, he told you, in the long run, he is not willing to put in the effort, to make the sacrifices necessary to be in a long-term, committed relationship with you. I think the idea that someone is not "meant" to be married is bullshit. You either are willing to do what it takes or you are not. So his unconditional acceptance is a lie to himself and to you, because it is temporary. IMHO, that is the red flag, that he is already being dishonest. Ionysis, being with someone like that is a lot of work. He will always be first. He will always be the priority for you, for him, for the relationship. Looking to a future with him with children will only magnify this, because you will have to put your children first at some point and he won't be able to do this and you and your kids will be more alone than you feel now. Sounds to me like he's making promises that he won't be able to keep long term. IMHO, you're better off moving foward, Ion.
|
|
|
Post by kittenhart on Jan 15, 2008 21:08:53 GMT -5
People tell us the truth. We really need to listen. When he said he is not meant to be married, he told you, in the long run, he is not willing to put in the effort, to make the sacrifices necessary to be in a long-term relationship... So his unconditional acceptance is a lie to himself and to you, because it is temporary. IMHO, that is the red flag, that he is already being dishonest. Ionysis, being with someone like that is a lot of work. He will always be first. You really sound addicted to him. Ask yourself this....maybe...just maybe....you're addicted to the rush you get from him treating you badly so that you feel like hell, then when he comes back and asks for forgiveness = temporary relief from the pain of his hell ----> huge dopamine hit. This is why every other man seems to pale in comparison for you when you have had a hit, just a little hit of it. He is priming you right now, trying to get you to push the right buttons to set the whole cycle up again.... I also agree with the other posters that it is a good question to ask yourself, if you didn't have a history with him, would you even give him a few hours of your day, is he really a person that is worthy of you? Try to remember how hard it was to escape this cycle the first time, how awful you felt, and how hard you've had to work at it. (I should really take my own advice here.....I should have taken my chiropractor's advice and kept a journal ....he was talking about my neck pain.... kindof He was asking me today if I'd been keeping a journal like he'd suggested I start. I said I hadn't been but I really should start. If I had started a journal, I could remind my self better of why I never want to go through this kindof hurt again.....so thank you Ion, for being a reminder of myself to myself today, by the way.....) My heart goes out to you....whatever good a tired kittenhart is to you here. I wish I had an easier answer for you, but there isn't one. And you do already know the answer but you're hoping it doesn't apply to you.....ask me how I know
|
|
|
Post by ionysis on Jan 16, 2008 2:31:42 GMT -5
Update: Last night was bad.
One of the things I asked him to agree to if I was to even talk to him about reconciliation was this:
“I can’t accept you providing emotional support in the form of ANY physical contact with Amina [the Chechen whore he slept with in July and is now friends with because she has no money and her passport has been taken from her by her ex-pimp]. I will need you to return her belongings and tell her that she cannot come to your flat anymore or you to hers. Please feel free to continue to provide her with money and support so long as you meet her only in public places. I do not want to hurt or disadvantage her but I cannot deal with things any other way. If you mean it when you say you love me and want to see if we can try to salvage something out of what we had I have to know that you are prepared to put my interests and feelings (so long as they are reasonable) before those of any other person in your life.”
He agreed but said that she was coming over one last time yesterday evening to have dinner with him, that he was all that had been keeping her emotionally stable for the last 3 months and he was worried what she might do etc. etc... I said that was OK as she could collect her stuff and he could explain the situation to her.
The night got later and later. I texted him at 11pm “Is she still there” – his response “Yes – we are watching the Terminator – she’ll be going soon – will call you when she leaves”. I called him at 1am. Livid, furious, raving with anger. He had just dropped her off. I totally and completely lost it. Drove to his apartment hit him, threw my keys, bag, shoes at him, smashed plates, glasses, threw a chair across the room and hurled the pieces at him screaming at him all the while how much I hated him and how could he do this. I gave him a chance to prove to me that he could put me first and he f*cked up THE FIRST NIGHT! Then I went to the bathroom and saw that all her stuff was still there – not one item was gone. I picked it all up and threw it at him down the stairs. Then I collapsed on the floor and cried my eyes out.
And he came over and picked me up and said he was so sorry and he held me and told me he loved me more than anything and wanted me to be his wife and that there was no one in his life that he had ever felt this way about and that he f*cked up but he was going to do everything he could to make me happy and try to make up for all that he’d done. And by then I was so broken and so wracked with sobs all I could do was lay on his chest and cry over and over “I love you, I love, you, I love you, please don’t hurt me, please, please, please” and let him put me to bed wrapped in a blanket and just hold me all night.
I love this man more than my life and I understand him and he me. We have a connection that I’ve never felt with anyone – it’s like he is a part of myself and I only feel truly alive when I’m near him. But not free, not happy. Because I KNOW that he is poison to me. When I told my mother he wanted to reconcile she cried down the phone at me for an hour begging me not to go back to him.
At the end of last year, after so much struggling, I finally escaped the prison I was caught in – a prison made of suffering and desperation and unsatisfied longing and now I’m letting myself be pulled back into that gilded cage – and I go willingly, like a lamb to the slaughter, but part of my mind is screaming at the rest of me begging me not to do it – not to ruin my family’s lives, my friend’s lives and most of all my own life.
Yet still I want to be with him. Just a little longer. Not forever. Just to be sure, to be absolutely sure that I’m doing the right thing. THEN I’ll let him go. If I don’t tell anyone I’m seeing him, if I keep him a secret, if I refuse to think of him in my future but only let myself quench that thirst to be near him for just a little while that will be OK, won’t it? Won’t it? Just one more night with him holding me. Just one more weekend. Just one more morning waking up with him looking into my eyes. I don’t want him in my future – I know he would be bad for me. But I spent so long desperately wanting him to come back to me and now I just want to submerge myself in this feeling – just for a little while…
God, why is it so hard to do what you know is right and so easy to do what you know is wrong?
Mags you are right. I don’t have to make choices right now. I’m in limbo and I have to try to let my heart and my head catch up.
Jules – you make a good point. If I just met him and heard about the person he is and how he has lived over the last year the answer would be HELL NO I wouldn’t want to be with him and no, he wouldn’t have anything to offer which I want to be a part of.
Kittenhart and Shey I think you are right – I am addicted to that rush. Last night after all that drama and chaos and violence I felt….good. I felt alive and passionate and intensely connected to both him and to my innermost emotions – it was exhausting and horrific but such a relief to really FEEL again after so many months of insipid emotions. I’ve become used to the incredible relief and adoration which I feel when he draws me towards him and soothes me after he has hurt me so much that I feel beaten to the ground.
I appreciate all your replies so much but I feel like the good advice here is being wasted on me. I don’t deserve your rational and generous responses because I am a victim of my own behavior more than I am of his. I suffer because of my choices, my weakness - and I do it knowingly. How often can you have sympathy for someone who continually brings pain on themselves - voluntarily? I am as bad as he is. He is an addict, he is a liar, he cannot follow through on his intentions or keep his promises. But neither can I, not on anything which is connected to him. This will all end badly. I can tell. I have to stop it now – before I screw up another year of my life – and the lives of those who genuinely care for me. I know I have to. Soon.
|
|
|
Post by horselover (Mrs. Spike) on Jan 16, 2008 6:34:12 GMT -5
Ionysis First of all I have to say, the only person you owe anything to, is yourself. Whatever you choose to do at this point, is your choice, and you are the one who will have to live through whatever happens. Do not add shame to everything else you are feeling, you will fall beneath the burden. That being said, I also have to add a few things. I find it rather unsettling that he agreed to get help, only after you made it a condition for him. He has said he is "not right within himself", yet there was no mention of getting help until you demanded it. It is true that everyone is different, and I speak from my own experience, but when I realized how messed up everything had become, I ran for help. It was not a condition handed down by my husband, we were not even speaking at that point. We had no contact until I was well into getting right within myself. I had hurt him enough. As for the woman he cheated with, any contact, or support of any kind is so very unacceptable. Meet in public places to provide monetary support, my @ss, absolutely not. No contact of any kind. She has no place in YOUR life Ion. Please do not fall into that. If you have to do this, do it with eyes wide open. If you believe this to be an addiction, find help for yourself. Do what you must, but for gods sake, don't do it blind, and above all else, hold your head high. You see nothing when you're staring at the ground.
|
|
Spike
Full Member
Posts: 123
|
Post by Spike on Jan 16, 2008 8:13:19 GMT -5
Deep breath, Ion. As the Mrs. said, you are in control of you. The choices you make are yours. I know exactly what your feeling, the fear, the confusion, the hope, it's all very overwhelming. Step back for a moment, take a breath, and look at it from outside. Does he seem sincere? Do you want to find out?
If you try, my best advice is to believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see; if there is enough to continue, there is a good chance he is sincere.
|
|