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Post by ionysis on Jan 16, 2008 8:48:32 GMT -5
You know what he DOES seem sincere. He really does. He has told me a lot of things which were brave to say. He seems to be looking at this from a very practical place and wants to talk in a sensible manner about how, if we decided to get back together, we could actually go about making a relationship actually work - for both of us. I need time. Lots and lots of time and to think about everything carefully. And I need to watch him and see what he is and isn't capable of. And Mrs Spike, I think you are right. I cannot bear the thought of her being near him. It makes me crazy - I've never behaved before the way I did last night - I just lost my mind. We have so many things to talk through. I've told him he needs to do everything in his power to try to win back my trust if I'm going to contemplate this. More than anything else I need to sleep.
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Post by JimB on Jan 16, 2008 9:04:19 GMT -5
Yet still I want to be with him. Just a little longer. Not forever. Just to be sure, to be absolutely sure that I’m doing the right thing. THEN I’ll let him go. I would suggest that you're much less sure when you're in contact with him than when you're not. What do you think? I dunno. I really do understand the feeling of being helplessly in love with someone, to the point where it takes over your life. It just seems to me that you gave this love every opportunity to succeed, and it continues to fail you. So perhaps your challenge is to take back your decision making process - to no longer allow this love to dictate your actions.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 16, 2008 9:17:29 GMT -5
Oh honey, you SOOOOO deserve support! This IS an addiction, a drug. You are abused, sweetie, and you can't see it. If he were physically hitting you you could point to noticable bruises, and you would still go back because he is sincerely sorry. That is how it works, and no one who understands the system would fault you for what you are doing.
Sincerity means NOTHING. You are sincere when you say you know he is poison to you. That doesn't equate to a change in ACTIONS. So first of all...
If you truly love him, you want him to get better, right? He can't do that with you there. You can't be his policeman. You can't check the bathroom for her things, his phone for calls for other women, you can't monitor him 24 hours a day - and if you DO, where is your life? Like Mrs. Spike said, he has to start this journey for HIMSELF. He has to know he needs it. He has to have the willpower to do this without you guarddogging him. If you want him well, you DO understand that, right? Not that you wouldn't be able to help, later, but not now.
Now... I am going to point something out to you here. You admitted that if there was no rush, you wouldn't choose this man, right? Now ask, where does the rush come from? For drugs, it comes from the death of brain cells (their dying spark is the "high"). For you, the rush comes from his "sorry" after hurting you, from the sweetness of the temporary end of pain when he holds you or makes love to you so you know, for that moment, that he is yours (and you know, the next moment, he won't be). If he stops hurting you, if he becomes healed and whole, the rush will stop. He will just love you and be good to you all the time. Then you are just living with the man, not the rush. The man you don't even like. The rush you get is FROM THE ABUSE. So yes, you are going to keep taking the abuse, because that abuse/torture he gives you is part of feeling alive (it is part of why some people cut themselves too). Then you get the glorious rush when the pain is soothed briefly, especially when you know more pain is coming. So it isn't surprising you would choose this course. That is the addiction.
Honey, he needs help, but SO DO YOU. You are addicted to this rush, to this pain, to this damage to yourself. You know it, and are as helpless to it as any other addict. It is not something for others to revile in you, it is something for sympathy and help. My hand will be out to you as many times as you need it. I know you will fall down, maybe many times, but eventually you will have enough and want to get better. When you do, my hand will still be there. If the time to get better is now, that would be wonderful, start with getting your own counselor, and avoiding that drug. No contact. If the time is NOT now... don't beat yourself up, start BUILDING yourself up, so you can have the strength SOON. The more you lose of yourself, the harder it is to get back. You are doing the emotional equivalent of killing off brain cells. The longer you take this poison, the longer it will take to recover. Last time, it took over a year, next time may be longer. Each time you give in and go back it will take longer - but it CAN be done - whenever you are ready. (Hopefully soon).
(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))
Shey
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Post by ionysis on Jan 16, 2008 9:18:04 GMT -5
Jim, I agree - when I was no contact I was happy in the end. I made a life, I made future plans. I had perspective and I found I could live without him and really be happy - in a clean, healthy way - not the way I was when I was with him where what really made me slavishly happy and pathetically grateful was any kind look or smile or touch from him. But even in the last 5 months when I've been moving on with my life I still believed that I would never, ever meet anyone who I could love the way I loved him. I accepted that. I was prepared to compromise on that in order to move on and let go of a pain which incapacitated me. And having no contact allowed me to do that. But as soon as I saw him again, as soon as I saw the tears in his eyes and how he looked at me and heard him say how sorry he was that was it. I was gone. And now it's too late because in just 3 days he has managed to insinuate himself back into my heart and my mind so deeply that I'm trapped again. I have to listen to him - I have to hear him out, I have to at least try to see if he has changed or if we have anything at all left between us which could make us happy - because I love him. That is the only reason. I KNOW in my head that its wrong but every minute more I spend with him the more my heart wants to try. To see if out of all this pain there is the smallest chance that we could build something which is healthy and which works - something with the foundations we had before but which is more balanced and honest and REAL.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 16, 2008 9:40:53 GMT -5
You love him the way you do, though, honey, because of the abuse. You love him so addictively because it is such a rush when you get those little pets on your puppy head. You won't love someone who is good to you as well as him. It has nothing to do with loving him because of who he is - it has to do with loving him because he knows how to give you those little puppy treats. If you have to wait for the treats, they mean more to you, and you have lost yourself waiting for the next one.
You are right, the more time you spend with him, the more you will need that. Because you have to have those treats to make the bad stuff worth it. If you REALLY step back and realize that the sorry ISN'T worth what it did to you, then you will be free. Yes, he is sincere, but he still failed you. You needed something, asked for it, reminded him, he still failed. All the sorry in the world won't mend that. Pain then pleasure... but when will you have enough pain?
Shey
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Post by ionysis on Jan 16, 2008 10:10:06 GMT -5
Thank you so much Shey, you are so kind to me, I feel like such an idiot, I don't know what I'm doing at all and I'm so confused.
I posted my last one before I saw you previous reply. My mother tells me the same thing, and my best friend too. That I only feel this way for him because of the push / pull, because he never made me feel safe in the relationship and because he would cut me off emotionally for months at a time just letting me back in for moments, in little gushes which were like water in the desert.
I escaped that but now he's back and I can't get free again and every day that I stay in contact with him the less I even want to struggle to hold onto the life and the future I had so clearly laid out before he showed up Sunday night and all I want is to be near him. I want to see him again tonight - and the next and the next.
I just don't know what to do any more. I'm so anxious and frightened. And last week when I hadn't seen him in 5 months I felt confident and whole and like ME again - the me I was before I fell in love with him. Now I feel like I've lost myself once more. I think I need some time out with other people for a night to get perspective back.
But there is no pleasure now in my head when I look forward to going out with my girlfriends this evening - I just want to be next to him breathing him, looking at him. And I didn't use to feel that way when I was free - I loved the social life I cultivated and it satisfied me richly. I feel like he drains everything else out of me, everything and everyone I care about or value turns to shadows and is replaced with him.
I don't think he does this on purpose though. He doesn't love me the way I love him but he does love me. I fear that being with him will be a lifetime of pain because every day I will know that he doesn't feel the way I do but I convinced myself once when I said I'd marry him that anything was worth it just to have him in my life.
Maybe the way I'm feeling now is just the initial rush that he is back. Maybe there is a way to make this work in a sensible way. Maybe he can be better to me this time? Oh I don't know, my head is such a muddle. Such a muddle.
I need to sleep.
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Post by sheyd on Jan 16, 2008 10:29:51 GMT -5
Do you go to a counselor? Can you?
It isn't his fault, and I don't think he does any of this on purpose... but I say that in the same way I say it is not the drug's fault. He doesn't have to TRY to hurt you for being with him to BE hurting you.
I know that drugged feeling - I felt it for my first boyfriend. To be honest, it took YEARS to get over it, to be fully open to the world again. You know this is hurting you, please don't let yourself go there. I KNOW you want to see him, I know that addiction. I know you want him to give you that life-giving water after the desert... But RIGHT NOW is when you have the choice, you are standing on the edge of that desert again. Her stuff is in his house, SHE was in his house, and if it isn't her it will be others. It isn't her fault, the fault lies in him - and he isn't fixing it. Do you want to go back to the desert? It will be hard to turn away when you can see that far off oasis - but you KNOW that oasis won't contain enough water to make you whole and happy. Look at your friends. They are the mountains. Yes, you start out at the base, where it may seem rather flat and boring - but look again. There is so much MORE you can do with your life, so many peaks to explore, so many different landscapes to see on the way. The base may SEEM boring when you can anticipate that exciting life/death trek across the desert - but it really isn't.
Turn away from that desert, Ionysis. There is NO WAY to make this work in a sensible way. He is still a desert, and will only show you the next oasis each time. You were healthy and happy without him, and you can be again. STOP CONTACT. Don't listen to the next promise, to the next sorry - yes, they WOULD feel good, but it is poisoning you and you know it. Don't let him take the color from your world. Be with your friends. Spend time away. Spend time BUSY so you CAN'T be with him. Ask your friends for help, have a girly sleepover. Resist the temptation-engage others in helping you. No one can resist a drug adiction alone. Get counseling, keep busy, don't let your mind focus on that rush. You CAN do it - and no guilt! Please, help yourself...
Shey
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Post by Magalucia on Jan 16, 2008 10:51:26 GMT -5
Ionysis,
I have been separated from my husband for nearly two years now. I have heard the "I will do whatever it takes" speech more times than I can recall. The most recent time was a few months ago. I was weak and lonely and missed him, missed my family. It took him less than a month to fall. He was so very sorry. He too was sincere when he promised to do what it took. He was also very sincere in his apology. But that did not change who he is. I rebound faster now. I am so accustomed to being disappointed. Maybe that is what you need. Maybe you need to see "what if" and allow him to show you. My guess is, sadly, that he will disappoint time and again and you will be devastated each time.
What helped me was the understanding of my family and friends that I would come to the right decision when I was ready. Lots of support and help from my therapist. ADs. And my child. I had to provide a safe place for her. But I remember a conversation I had with my father-in-law many years ago when I told him I could not stay with "J", how could I put a child through living this kind of life. He reminded me that I was just as important as any child I might have. Finally, a conversation I had with my sister who had lived her own marital nightmare also helped me stay strong. She told me that after her divorce she started remembering what was normal. She had compromised "normal" so much in her marriage for the sake of making things work that she had done things she would never have imagined she would.
If you can take some time away from work and go home and be with your mother, I would urge you to do that. I think it would be wonderful to allow her to wrap you in a blanket and lay down next to you and show you real, unconditional love for a while.
You are stronger than you think.
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Post by kittenhart on Jan 16, 2008 12:29:11 GMT -5
Yet still I want to be with him. Just a little longer. Not forever. Just to be sure, to be absolutely sure that I’m doing the right thing. THEN I’ll let him go. If I don’t tell anyone I’m seeing him, if I keep him a secret, if I refuse to think of him in my future but only let myself quench that thirst to be near him for just a little while that will be OK, won’t it? Won’t it? Just one more night with him holding me. Just one more weekend. Just one more morning waking up with him looking into my eyes. I don’t want him in my future – I know he would be bad for me. But I spent so long desperately wanting him to come back to me and now I just want to submerge myself in this feeling – just for a little while… God, why is it so hard to do what you know is right and so easy to do what you know is wrong? Because you are a junkie for him. You are a junkie. No there is no way to just be around him just a little, even though you rationally know he's bad for you.....the words "junkie" and "rational" don't go together. I know you will hate me for those last two sentences and probably disregard my post now....but maybe seeing the word junkie used to describe yourself will strike a chord. So there, I said it. (but not to be mean, Ion) I appreciate all your replies so much but I feel like the good advice here is being wasted on me. I don’t deserve your rational and generous responses because I am a victim of my own behavior more than I am of his. I suffer because of my choices, my weakness - and I do it knowingly. How often can you have sympathy for someone who continually brings pain on themselves - voluntarily? I am as bad as he is. Listen to Shey and Mrs. Spike and Mags and re-read the replies...You deserve friendship and sympathy and compassionate good advice as much as anyone. We all make mistakes. We all keep making mistakes. Maybe we learn from them. Maybe it takes a few more repetitions for us to learn from them than we'd like ... Please understand that your posts have helped me more than you know. To have someone else actually write it out so I can see it and be a bit more removed from it has been quite a revelation for me. Giving you advice is helping me, Ion....maybe more than it will help you right now as you are under his spell again So please don't feel badly about coming here to get support. As Shey said, build yourself up and then you will feel strong enough to do what you know needs to be done. Please re-read Shey's posts because I do agree that if he were to get help and start being nicer to you, you would be bored....actually just re-read all these posts...I'm going to.
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Post by ionysis on Jan 17, 2008 3:01:52 GMT -5
Kittenhart I don't hate you at all - you are right - I am a junkie. I feel like one right now. If I needed any indication that this was wrong I should realise it from the way I've felt over this past week. I didn't feel joy and happiness that he was back in my life. Instead I've felt shrivelled and anxious and utterly miserable. I don't feel strong and confident any more I feel needy and vulnerable and ugly and undesirable and as though I'm not good enough again. Just being back in contact with him is enough. He is the equivalent to a dementor for me - he sucks all the joy out of my life but I still tilt my head back and give myself up to the kiss which will suck out my soul.
I went out last night with my girlfriends and it was the first time all week that I've felt happy and relaxed and normal again. I told them what was going on and universally they all said I was totally and utterly insane to be even contemplating speaking to him let alone letting him back into my life. In fact not ONE person thinks it is a good idea.
I need to reclaim my equilibrium and positive attitude - this week has been terrible. I will never, ever let my happiness depend on what he does again. It's my choice whether I am happy or not - he cannot MAKE me feel anything. I have to keep telling myself: I like who I am and I'm a good person. I don't have to prove I'm good enough for him because what he thinks is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if he doesn't love me the way I loved him - that isn't a reflection on me, it isn't because I'm not worth it. I am worth it. I am strong enough to be on my own - I feel STRONGER when I'm on my own. I can do this. I can make my life work on my own. I can keep going, I can get this work done, I can organise my future, I don't need someone to rescue me, I am strong and capable and I can do this. I will not drown here with him. I will not let my life crumble to bits because I cannot cope with everything. I will make this work. I will step up to the plate and deal with life on my oen. I will not fall into his arms and expect him to save me from the struggles and difficulties of the world - not least because I know my weight is too much for him - in every sense!
I can do this.
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feel
New Member
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Post by feel on Jan 18, 2008 14:12:38 GMT -5
Just a thought... If not for your history together, would you (the person you are today) want to be with him (the person he is today)? Are you asking me this? Well I always think about him changing but there is always somehting small that tells me he hasn't and even if he may have changed, I am still the one he hurt and I am afraid it will that it will be that much easier for him to do it again, who knows maybe even in 5 years or less.... I just feel that once you ahve crossed that line especially with a wife or husband, how much easier can it be for next time and will you as a person ever be able to forgive or move on from something so hurtfull.....
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