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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 12:12:41 GMT -5
People can kill people with many different things. Guns are a great "equalizer", a little old woman of 80 can protect herself from a 20 yr old Meth head. Only problem with that is little 80 year old is not likely to know how to use that weapon in a safe or responsible manner. She's just as likely to shoot herself or an innocent bystander as she is the 20 year old meth addict. Even worse, let's say she gets freaked out or pissed off at her husband or the clerk at the grocery store or her doctor. More people carrying around more guns is not the answer in my humble opinion. Why would you assume she wouldn't know how to be "safe" with a gun? My great uncle who is 92, fought in the Pacific in WWII, knows how to handle a gun, though I don't know if he owns one. He does own 2 cars, he does drive everyday. How many people could he kill driving into a Farmer's Market? In locations where more people (LAW ABIDING PEOPLE) do carry guns are more safe than those that do not. Just checkout the gun crime stats in Washington DC.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 12:13:54 GMT -5
There is something very wrong in our culture which is sending these kids on killing sprees... Because if you discipline your Kid that is considered Child Abuse So they become MonstersCan I get an AMEN to that one. How many of these kids were ignored on a daily basis. They came from normal families, but did their parents even know them. I know when something is wrong with my kids just by the looks on their faces. Didn't these parents sense something was wrong? I am sure at one point they deserved a good smack, but didn't get it. I am sure the parents wish they would have diciplined them more.
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Post by lumpy on Feb 15, 2008 12:16:56 GMT -5
Only problem with that is little 80 year old is not likely to know how to use that weapon in a safe or responsible manner. She's just as likely to shoot herself or an innocent bystander as she is the 20 year old meth addict. Even worse, let's say she gets freaked out or pissed off at her husband or the clerk at the grocery store or her doctor. More people carrying around more guns is not the answer in my humble opinion. Why would you assume she wouldn't know how to be "safe" with a gun? My great uncle who is 92, fought in the Pacific in WWII, know how to handle a gun, though I don't know if he owns one. He does own 2 cars, he does drive everyday. How many people could he kill driving into a Farmer's Market? In locations where more people (LAW ABIDING PEOPLE) do carry guns are more safe than those that do not. Just checkout the gun crime stats in Washington DC. I would take my statement one step further and say that most people are not responsible enough or level headed enough to be carrying around a firearm. Just to use your example, how many twits do you come across during the course of the day who can't drive? I would not feel safer if everyone had the right to pack heat. It would have the opposite effect for me.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 12:22:08 GMT -5
Why would you assume she wouldn't know how to be "safe" with a gun? My great uncle who is 92, fought in the Pacific in WWII, know how to handle a gun, though I don't know if he owns one. He does own 2 cars, he does drive everyday. How many people could he kill driving into a Farmer's Market? In locations where more people (LAW ABIDING PEOPLE) do carry guns are more safe than those that do not. Just checkout the gun crime stats in Washington DC. I would take my statement one step further and say that most people are not responsible enough or level headed enough to be carrying around a firearm. Just to use your example, how many twits do you come across during the course of the day who can't drive? I would not feel safer if everyone had the right to pack heat. It would have the opposite effect for me. It is against the law to carry a loaded weapon in the car. The gun must be carried in the trunk, in a locked container, and the bullets can not be stored in that container. If everyone had a gun, and used it "LEGALLY" there wouldn't be a problem. But, there are some crazies out there who should be hospitalized and medicated, not driving around with a weapon.
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Post by cdngurl on Feb 15, 2008 12:26:52 GMT -5
He does own 2 cars, he does drive everyday. How many people could he kill driving into a Farmer's Market? Just as I am a big believer in strict gun control laws, I believe that anyone over age...? 65? 70? (dunno here) should need to undergo a driver's test every year or two to renew their driver's license. Am I sounding like CM??
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 12:29:43 GMT -5
Lock the doors Lump, in the United States, every law abiding, non-diagnosed mental case, does have a right to pack heat. Well in most of the still "free" USA. BTW I do not own a gun. BBTW I have a friend who grew up in PA, he would carry his .22 rifle to school when he was 12 and hunt squirrels on the way home.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 12:29:53 GMT -5
That law is already in effect. You can report anyone to the DMV over the age of 65 and they will have to take a written and physical driving test.
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Post by Saucy on Feb 15, 2008 12:43:57 GMT -5
hahahah YOURE right lUMPY i did get that from Chris Rock..But its SOOOOOO true! i think that is the best and greatest way to gun control.
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Post by cdngurl on Feb 15, 2008 12:49:52 GMT -5
That law is already in effect. You can report anyone to the DMV over the age of 65 and they will have to take a written and physical driving test. I don't think it is like that here... pretty sure. Darn good law where you are though IMHO!
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Post by lumpy on Feb 15, 2008 12:55:15 GMT -5
Lock the doors Lump, in the United States, every law abiding, non-diagnosed mental case, does have a right to pack heat. Well in most of the still "free" USA. BTW I do not own a gun. BBTW I have a friend who grew up in PA, he would carry his .22 rifle to school when he was 12 and hunt squirrels on the way home. I don't believe that to be true. There are some states where it is much easier than others to obtain concealed weapons permits (Arizona ans Texas to name two) I don't feel citizens should have the right to carry around firearms. Again, IMHO, it creates more problems than it solves.
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 13:01:37 GMT -5
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Post by sheyd on Feb 15, 2008 13:40:36 GMT -5
One idea I have always had was that guns should be registered, like cars. Preferably also with a bullet sample, so the forensic teams can know by that as well (yes, I know registries can be faked, gun barrels can be changed, but it IS a start, isn't it?) Those who are mostly honest but go nuts would be caught quicker - and disposing of guns to people who otherwise shouldn't have them would be cut down.
The truth is, if guns are handled responsibly, they are of no use in the case of meth-head, robber, etc, even to a skilled gunman. By the time you have gone through all those locks, etc they have you. The fact that you were trying to get going on a gun probably just pissed them off more.
Even cops get their own guns used on them, so training isn't enough. Pulling a gun ups the ante in a tense situation automatically, which is rarely "safer". Honestly, I work at a campus, and knowing someone has a gun near me would NOT make me feel safer in the case of the crazies coming around. I would want to be away from them so the nice little exchange of bullets could miss me.
I'm with you, cdngurl, I am not a fan of guns either. Except I have no problem with the contained shooting galleries or hunting preserves (although I have never understood why someone would WANT to watch the light die in an animal's eyes...). In other countries you can own guns but they stay locked up in the place you are allowed to shoot - rather than turned loose on the streets.
Shey
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 13:50:05 GMT -5
So the fact that "gun free zones" and those that are unarmed are targeted does not bother you? IT is illegal to murder... and yet it happens everyday, sometimes with a gun, sometimes not. It is not the gun that does the murdering, not the knife or hammer, it is the individual.
Shey if you worked on a Campus that happened to have a large number of Law Enforcement folks walking around armed would you feel safer?
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Post by lumpy on Feb 15, 2008 13:54:14 GMT -5
"Moreover, there is no reason to believe that a war on guns will rid American society of guns any more than the war on drugs has eradicated drugs from our society. Those who wish to purchase illegal guns will be able to do so on the black market as easily as they purchase drugs." -Quoted from the article. I very much agree with that above statement. I'm not sure I agree with the correlation that gun control automatically equals more violent crime. I think you can pull stats selectively. Look at Japanese and Chinese numbers after similar arms control laws and I think you'll find the exact opposite effect. That being said, I don't think our government could effectively enact true gun control any more than they have sucessfully defended against drug proliferation.
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 14:02:54 GMT -5
Lock the doors Lump, in the United States, every law abiding, non-diagnosed mental case, does have a right to pack heat. Well in most of the still "free" USA. BTW I do not own a gun. BBTW I have a friend who grew up in PA, he would carry his .22 rifle to school when he was 12 and hunt squirrels on the way home. I don't believe that to be true. There are some states where it is much easier than others to obtain concealed weapons permits (Arizona ans Texas to name two) I don't feel citizens should have the right to carry around firearms. Again, IMHO, it creates more problems than it solves. Fact sheet: www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=18You would think with 40 states having conceal carry and 10 having limited carry, you would hear stories everyday about conceal carry permit holders going nuts over some road rage incident and shooting each other. Guess the Wild West did not come back with conceal carry.
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