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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 14:04:59 GMT -5
"Moreover, there is no reason to believe that a war on guns will rid American society of guns any more than the war on drugs has eradicated drugs from our society. Those who wish to purchase illegal guns will be able to do so on the black market as easily as they purchase drugs." -Quoted from the article. I very much agree with that above statement. I'm not sure I agree with the correlation that gun control automatically equals more violent crime. I think you can pull stats selectively. Look at Japanese and Chinese numbers after similar arms control laws and I think you'll find the exact opposite effect. That being said, I don't think our government could effectively enact true gun control any more than they have sucessfully defended against drug proliferation. I think it comes down to this... Criminals act criminally, they do not obey drug laws or gun laws. Law abiding citizens do obey gun laws, so what you get with gun laws is armed criminals and unarmed law abiding citizens.
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Post by cdngurl on Feb 15, 2008 14:26:30 GMT -5
I think it comes down to this... Criminals act criminally, they do not obey drug laws or gun laws. Law abiding citizens do obey gun laws, so what you get with gun laws is armed criminals and unarmed law abiding citizens. you're right - but in my very humble opinion, even armed law abiding citizens are f*cked if met with a criminal with intent to harm or kill. I don't think being able to own a gun keeps anyone safer ... what it does do though, is increase the chance of accidental death, domestic homocide, or the chances of a teen getting a hold of a gun and doing something stupid. Just my view.. I'm pretty happy not being able to own a gun - because my neighbours don't own one .. and most criminals around here don't own one... and I won't accidently shoot my dog in the middle of the night thinking its a burglar.. ;D
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 14:29:09 GMT -5
I think it comes down to this... Criminals act criminally, they do not obey drug laws or gun laws. Law abiding citizens do obey gun laws, so what you get with gun laws is armed criminals and unarmed law abiding citizens. you're right - but in my very humble opinion, even armed law abiding citizens are f*cked if met with a criminal with intent to harm or kill. I don't think being able to own a gun keeps anyone safer ... what it does do though, is increase the chance of accidental death, domestic homocide, or the chances of a teen getting a hold of a gun and doing something stupid. Just my view.. I'm pretty happy not being able to own a gun - because my neighbours don't own one .. and most criminals around here don't own one... and I won't accidently shoot my dog in the middle of the night thinking its a burglar.. ;D I am not trying to force anyone to own a gun, I don't. I was just wondering what folks thought.
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Post by lumpy on Feb 15, 2008 14:38:58 GMT -5
what it does do though, is increase the chance of accidental death, domestic homocide, or the chances of a teen getting a hold of a gun and doing something stupid. Just my view.. Agree 100%. I don't own a gun for this very reason. I can't think of one situation in my life where I wished I'd had a gun. I can think of at least 5 or 6 where I'm thankful that I didn't have a gun. This is coming from someone who grew up target shooting. My father always had handguns, shotguns and rifles in the house. He grew up on a farm in Washington and it was very much a part of his upbringing. He taught both my brother and I to shoot and all the gun safety that goes with that.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 14:41:34 GMT -5
I am a gun enthusiast. I shoot regularly. My husband is in the military. I believe that I have the right to protect myself against someone trying to harm me. I am a mother and would not hesitate to protect my children if they were in harms way, even if that meant taking another’s life.
I find the statements made today regarding this issue intriguing. This entire argument is good vs. evil. Criminals vs. Law Abiding Citizens. Peace vs. War. We have failed to mention how to prevent crime, which would then make the need to protect ourselves obsolete. We have failed to mention the detrimental effects of poverty, drug addition, single parent homes or the problem within the public school system within our society. Without poverty and/or drug abuse, there would be no crime.
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 14:43:43 GMT -5
"Without poverty and/or drug abuse, there would be no crime."
While that would end a lot of crime... not all. Many theives are not poverty stricken, many murders do not involve drugs.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 14:51:36 GMT -5
"Without poverty and/or drug abuse, there would be no crime." While that would end a lot of crime... not all. Many theives are not poverty stricken, many murders do not involve drugs. But they involve some devious act. A crime of passion is the only murder I can think of that doesn't involve some type of capital gain.
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 15:05:05 GMT -5
But how do you end all crimes except those that are crimes of "passion"? Since the beginning of man there has been violent crime. This Country was founded on protecting the rights of it's citizens from other individuals and from Government. There will always be those who wish to harm, take advantage of, do evil. The police "protect" no one, they arrive AFTER a crime has occured and try to bring the criminal to justice. HOWEVER that does little to help the victim.
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Post by sheyd on Feb 15, 2008 15:09:22 GMT -5
I totally agree, Murdock - totally. That is why I am studying to be a social worker - even though I probably won't use the degree. There are better ways to handle things to prevent crimes, and I want to learn more and help if I can.
Goods, I actually do NOT feel safer when there are armed guards drifting around campus. Not in the least.
Shey
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 15:14:24 GMT -5
But how do you end all crimes except those that are crimes of "passion"? Since the beginning of man there has been violent crime. This Country was founded on protecting the rights of it's citizens from other individuals and from Government. There will always be those who wish to harm, take advantage of, do evil. The police "protect" no one, they arrive AFTER a crime has occured and try to bring the criminal to justice. HOWEVER that does little to help the victim. As a society we are failing.
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Post by sheyd on Feb 15, 2008 15:15:15 GMT -5
Oh god... Just found out the shooter was an MSW student - studying the same program I am... ugh.
Shey
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Post by sheyd on Feb 15, 2008 15:16:38 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that we are failing as a society got to be too much for them! How can someone who applies and gets into a program to help people turn around and kill? Shey
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Post by lumpy on Feb 15, 2008 15:18:07 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that we are failing as a society got to be too much for them! How can someone who applies and gets into a program to help people turn around and kill? Shey Crazy effects everybody. I know doctors that I wouldn't trust with a gun.
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Post by murdock on Feb 15, 2008 15:20:18 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that we are failing as a society got to be too much for them! How can someone who applies and gets into a program to help people turn around and kill? Shey Crazy effects everybody. I know doctors that I wouldn't trust with a gun. People that commit these haneous acts have obviously given up entirely on life.
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Post by goods on Feb 15, 2008 15:20:37 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that we are failing as a society got to be too much for them! How can someone who applies and gets into a program to help people turn around and kill? Shey Crazy effects everybody. I know doctors that I wouldn't trust with a gun. doctors, cops, priests, military...etc etc The question remains, if a student, ta or the professor in that classroom was armed, could they have saved lives? I think so.
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