hug this

[redskyatnight]

It is hard to read your post because much of what you are going through is what I went through. Blaming yourself, wanting it to work out, wondering where it went wrong. April 1 will be four years since I had enough and left.

The good stuff was there, but the bad stuff was getting progressively worse to the point of things breaking, knives being thrown, etc. Those are the things I remember now. I remember the direction the relationship was going.

I still flinch in certain situations and need quiet time, just to myself, but I don't let him control me anymore. Look at the LAST part of your relationship and the direction it was headed, not the direction you wanted it to go. Judge the direction by action and pattern.

I also try not to place blame on the failure of the relationship. I let him abuse me, he took advantage of that. We were both at fault, so in my mind, the relationship just didn't work out. We are two very different people, who interact in a way that is unhealthy for both of us. No blame, just the realization that we are not good together. He is not good for you.

I want to congratulate you for enforcing the NO CONTACT. Remember this - it will get worse before it gets better. When he wants your attention and you don't give it to him, he will escalate his behavior to get it. That is when you usually give in. Be prepared for it to happen. Don't give in this time. Let his attempts to contact you get worse before they get better. That is the only way you will get better.

[midge]

i keep forgetting that this really is a roller coaster- i felt great yesterday and not so great today. time makes my perspective change and i doubt myself again. i start thinking that i didn't do enough (i did more than enough and nothing i could have done could change anything, anyway). my last communication with him was to tell him that i hated him last week. that was my closure. as i did it, i knew that it was mean and immature and something that i may regret later. i did hate him at the time and i think i do hate him. in his predictably manipulative fashion, he wrote me back telling me that he was sorry i felt that way and that he doesn't hate me at all. what an ass, he had just been calling me names! normally i would feel compelled to apologize to him, but i feel no such feelings. i was always apologizing to him for the way he treated me.

i am sometimes mad at myself for taking so long to get over him. i am mad that it has taken me years to get over him and i refused to cut him out of my life but i got over my exhusband in months and easily cut him out of my life even after he apologized and cried to me. what makes the man i married so much easier to close out and this person who hurt me a million times more so difficult to leave?

i think my divorce made me a healthier person in many ways. i place no blame in my marriage, it was a draw. i also place no blame with the other. i always hope that i am the only person he ever treats this way. i hope that it is something about our chemistry together that brings out the bad.

thank you for suggesting that i think of where the relationship was going rather than what could have been. my resolution to end it completely in every way comes from finally emerging from the fog and realizing that, after three years, i was not having my needs met and i would never have them met by him. i realized that my job was to try harder and harder and give more and more and his job was only to ask for more, take more and blame me for anything that was not right.

it feels so much more heartbreaking than my divorce and i don't know why. many of us, when we get divorced must face at some point, that much of the devastation comes from the loss of a dream. the relationship had already eroded and missing the good is long gone. the sadness is for the past and singular fantasy of the future, i doubt many divorcing people miss what was in the present. this guy showed me what he was capable of, and because of the dysfunctional and abusive nature of our relationship, the good and the bad were never far apart. experience with him told me that the future would always be that way, but i still miss the good person he would be the day before and the day after.

i often thought of a nursery rhyme when thinking about our relationship:

when it was good,
it was vary, very good,
but when it was bad,
it was horrid.

our relationship was the little girl with the curl.

i guess i wrestle with determining if it is ok to mourn the loss of him from my life. i don't know if it is ok to accept that i really loved him, even if he didn't love me in the same way, if at all. i feel that i had tried to do that for years and get over him at the same time and that is how i got into this mess. i feel like i need to hate him to actually get over him.

[flyaway]

Midge, you just may need to hate him for a bit. That is all part of the cycle of grief. You will need to grieve this relationship in order to move through to life beyond it. Everytime he send you messages, he is attempting to keep you from moving beyond. You see, he's gotten much, much too used to be able to treat you terribly. It would be work for him to find another unsuspecting "victim". I'm so glad for a lot of the advice that redsky is passing on to you. There's so much wisdom in those words. *yay redsky*

There's just something about you, Midge. My heart breaks for this situation. I'm very glad to see that you're able to see things for what they are, clearly. I can understand that there will still be the rollercoaster days. The days where you doubt yourself, your decisions, your ability to be wise and strong. But I think you're seeing the source of the doubt now, right?

He has thrived on keeping you hopping on one foot, so to speak. If he has consistantly sent you the message that you're an amputee and no longer have a second foot to stand on, you're going to start to believe him. But.....I think the longer you're out of the relationship....you're finding your sure footing emotionally. And he's desperately trying to keep you off balance by telling you that you've still only got one foot.

I'm not sure if this makes sense as I'm on night shift this weekend....but I just wanted to send you some encouragement to stay the course, Midge. You'll come out the other side with two strong feet that will take you to places you never thought you could go!!

Hugs!

[midge]

thank you, flyaway. what you said made perfect sense and i do truly appreciate your advice and the advice of redsky.

my boss called me out one day for not being myself (the day after he sent the email about not responding to the joke). i was kind of mortified that my boss called me out (over the phone, no less). he then came to work and i just unloaded. other than what i write here, i've had no where to really express it. i would hate for my dad to know because he would flip, and my mother would also. i spilled a disjointed summary of the last three years. he had suggested more than once that i "might feel better about myself if i thought about a boob job." i had never felt bad about it until he made the suggestion! everything came out. my boss looked at me and asked what i would say to a friend who had just told that story. he told me that i should always remember sitting at my desk crying over a person who has done what he has done and said what he has said.

this also reminds me of something my mother always told me in response to my brothers annoying me: stop making it so fun and easy. of course, that may be an oversimplification in an adult situation where one person is taking advantage of another- but i definitely made it fun and EASY for him to do.

flyaway, you are right about him trying to keep me off-balance- he has done it for so long. he is a crazy-maker who loves the push and pull. he loved to draw me in and push me away (he once told me that he liked it when i acted bonkers because he knew i needed him. wtf?! i wouldn't act bonkers if he didn't toy with me!)

i told him not to contact me anymore because i've met someone and i don't need to explain his random and odd communications. he has been so accustomed to having me available to him at any time. at first i felt bad because i knew that information would hurt him, but then i decided i didn't care because it was the truth and likely not nearly as hurtful as anything he has done to me.

not having contact with him is a relief. i feel healthy today and optimistic. intellectually, i know what happened and how. emotionally, it is hard to believe i was sucked into it.

[ionysis]

Midge, I always related to your situation very much from what you wrote here. After he left me before our wedding my ex kept up contact for 18 months, each time I felt stronger he'd come and tear a little piece out of me again. He did the most horrible, callous things and then told me he couldn't be with me if *I* didn't learn how to control my emotions and make sure I was always smiling when I saw him. So many many things, that's the tip of the iceberg.

People like my ex and yours are not healthy, they aren't capable of feeling and giving the way normal people are. They can't see their actions as abusive because they have no perspective on themselves. The ONLY way I could heal myself was total no contact. It took me 18 months of emotional abuse until I could finally say enough is enough but like you I LET him do that do me. I felt that unless he validated me, unless he expressed his approbation and came back to me for good I was worthless. He made me act in ways which would look insane to someone on the outside (screaming, sitting outside his aprtment at 2am, throwing things) but he literally drove me past the point of endurance.

I still find in my current relationship things will touch sore spots which cause huge pain because of my past, I'm sensitive about being kissed often for example because my ex used to refuse to kiss me - because he didn't think it was "good for me" to be so emotionally attached to him and not kissing would provide a more healthy distance. I can relate to the boob-job comment by the way - my ex said many times one of the reasons he held off asking me to marry him was in case I got fat as I aged, as I was already not his ideal (the whole relationship I was a US size 8-10.)

As soon as I completely and irrevocably cut him out of my life in every way it took me only a matter of weeks to stop feeling the way I had. I suppose I'd been healing the whole time but it took that to make him just irrelevant. Sometimes I still hate him for how he treated me, I utterly despise the man he is, but mostly I never even think of him.

Hate him, recognise that his behaviour was totally unacceptable, even acknowledge that you let him treat you that way if you must but don't blame yourself, blame him. He is poison in your life and regardless of his reasons, or the excuses you (we) make, the fact is he makes you miserable and like a cancer he has to be eradicated for you to get on with your life and be healthy.

Good luck, reading your post brought back so much. I do hope the nexts weeks and months bring you happiness.

[midge]

OMG!!!! i love that- if *i* don't learn to control my emotions! we are the ones with the problem. manipulation and control by the other party are not factors in the dysfunction, our human emotions and our reactions to their crazy-making are the problem.

i remember what a sicko R was and how hard you tried. i know you are beautiful inside and out (and not fat at all!). i remember thinking you were fighting a losing battle trying to reconcile with him and make it work when there was so much wrong with his perception and the way he treated you. i am so happy for your new engagement and that you have eliminated R from your life. i can also see that if i remove myself and look at this from the outside, i am also fighting a losing battle.

all of this contact has cut little pieces of me away. about a month ago he told me that he wanted the fun and vivacious midge back. the happy free spirit. i wanted to tell him that when i interact with him, that midge is dead and gone. our relationship has changed that part of me and it is inaccessible in his presence. i wonder if it is a defense mechanism?

i feel that some of my need for interaction with him might be validation (although, it is all negative), but i think a lot of it also has to do with the status of my relationship with my ex husband. my ex husband flipped his lid on a camping trip and hooked up with his alcoholic, bi-polar, suicide attempting, drug using, certified whore stepsister (they had only been step siblings for a year at that point, but the whole thing was very gross and troubling to me). at the time we were not really thriving, but there was no talk of divorce . i still think of our marriage as affectionate as the main way to describe it. he did sweet things for me (like writing clip art notes), i took care of him. he got heartsick if i was out of town too long, i couldn't wait for him to come home from work at night. anyway, the divorce was ugly, he moved the stepsister into my home the week i left and they stayed together until the day we went to court to finalize the divorce a year and a half later. he dumper her that night. he spent the next year telling me how wrong he was and how great i was. i was so hurt by the way it all went down and the way he treated me and i still am. i understand that divorce was probably the best option for us, but the way it happened was not cool. as a result, i have been completely unable to have any type of relationship with him post divorce. i am extremely troubled by my inability to have a relationship with him. i feel conflicted, i married him and i loved him. no matter how miserable i was, i never would have left him and i certainly would not have hurt, degraded and humiliated him the way he did to me.

while i felt a deep affection for my ex husband, i never had a deep connection with him like he was the only one who understood me. i don't think i really understood him. we had few common interests. i loved this other guy so differently. while i cannot determine if his friendship was ever real or if the way we connected was ever real based upon the way he treats me, the personal loss of him (not counting the horrible parts) is so much greater to me than the loss of my ex husband. perhaps i am still crazy thinking that i could expect anything different from him. because my ex husband is out of my life and he wants back in and i cannot let him back in, i have been extremely hesitant to eliminate this other guy. i don't want to feel like i have abandoned two people (two people who abandoned me first). recent ex even told me i was immature for not remaining friends with exes (but he didn't want me to be friends with ex husband because he was jealous and afraid i would go back to him). so, i haven't been able to put him out of my life completely because of the guilt i anticipate.

incidentally, i broke no contact. i emailed him to wish him a happy birthday. he told me he never wanted to talk to me again (most of the reason being that i am a moody, crazy bitch. i should actually SHOW him what a moody, crazy bitch is). i guess my problem is solved.

[redskyatnight]

Only you can validate yourself. It will happen little by little. Talk to yourself during the day and repeat things you like about yourself. Find small things, then bigger things. You don't need some controlling, manipulative, narcissist to validate you.

And saying that you are immature for not remaining friends is another way to control and manipulate. He is telling you something negative to get you to act in a way he wants. Should we all be friends with people who have betrayed our trust and put us down? We don't need friends like that. He doesn't treat you well, so don't be friends with him and don't feel like you abandoned him. That is how he wants you to feel. Stop letting him dictate how you feel and what you do.

Opening the door with the happy birthday allowed him to slam you. You were being nice, so he saw it as an opportunity to step on you and squash you into the ground one more time. I hope you ignore what he said because he is wrong. Don't do anything to show him how crazy you are. He's probably waiting for you to defend yourself, so you all will fall back into the pattern. Just delete it and never say another nice thing to him again. He doesn't deserve it and you don't need it.

[midge]

you're right, redsky. i didn't even think about his comment about the friendship post-break up being controlling and manipulative. we "broke up" so long ago! he was totally controlling me and manipulating me so he could have a place in my life to come into and leave capriciously.

i regret contacting him. he would have slammed me later and aggressively out of the blue for not remembering. he slammed me for remembering.

HE is the crazy bitch.

i will validate myself. i am more than he ever deserved!

[flyaway]

Mar 24, 2009 0:45:46 GMT -5 ionysis said:

As soon as I completely and irrevocably cut him out of my life in every way it took me only a matter of weeks to stop feeling the way I had. I suppose I'd been healing the whole time but it took that to make him just irrelevant.

I LOVE that! "Irrelevant" is an excellent word used in this way.

Midge, I'm sorry that this sorry person took the opportunity to slam you while you were extending common courtesy. I have come to realize the narcissists (which is what all these ex's of ours are) will never EVER be satisfied. It does not matter what you do or don't do. It will never ever be the right thing. Find a ticket for the "no contact" train and climb aboard. Don't get off. lol.

Have a great evening, Midge! (You too, I and redsky!)

[midge]

i woke up this morning to a fucked up dream. in my dream, my exhusband was in my apartment with two of my four animals and his new girlfriend. i assume that there were only two animals because the other two have passed away. in the dream, i didn't know the woman, but she actually looked like my sister in law. my animals were everything to me and i only left them with him because i could never provide for them the way he can. i didn't want their lives disrupted, i wanted them to stay in a home with a huge yard. i didn't want to face having to part with them later because of an inability to provide appropriate shelter for them. in my dream he was telling me that i had to take the animals right now because they were no longer convenient for him. i was crying because they didn't remember me and i am not allowed to have pets in my apartment. i was crying because he was unwilling to do right by me and he refused to do right by my poor animals (that he always loved more than me). he just barged into my life to make unexpected demands on me to suit his whims.

shortly after waking up, i realized that today is my 8th wedding anniversary. it is not something i had been thinking about; my brain found a way to remind me.

[Mel (cherry)]

((((HUG))))

It is hard when your subconscious goes and does things like that to you. I hope these last few days have brought you some calm and peace. I'm thinking of you hun.

[midge]

thanks so much, mel. i'm definitely feeling better, but it is a roller coaster.

i'm thinking about you, too! hope your wedding is beautiful and your marriage is fantastic!!

[midge]

i think you are becoming irrelevant. i went to a concert at the * on sunday night, which, of course requires driving by your office. i avoid going to my favorite mall because the only way to get there is to drive by your place of employment and then my stomach does somersaults. i avoid going to a mall i really want to go to because i know it is the mall you go to and i don't want to risk running into you. on sunday night i rode by your office and looked at it as i rode by. i didn't break out in hives. i didn't lose my breath. the building is as familiar to me as your face.

when we got to town to see the show, i was a little unnerved because we live so far apart, but i was then so geographically close to you. that town has died and it seems like it is worse than my own town. all the bars and restaurants and shops were closed and the concert venue wasn't open yet. we decided to go to a liquor store outside the CBD and go to the park. even the liquor store was shut down. the first restaurant we came upon was the moose*, i silently gasped before my friend suggested we go there. i didn't even realize that restaurant was there, i thought it was several miles south in another town. i figured i may as well face all my demons and close you out all in one night. i wasn't going to stop going places because they reminded me of you. you are no longer sacred. now you are just a jackass who recklessly broke my heart.

my heart is broken and i still wish for the person i imagined you to be. i still wish for an opportunity to give you a piece of my mind, but that is not possible because you are such a pussy. you can never face the damage you have done or the hurt you cause. i will never forget that you ended it by trying to make me think it was because i had a mood swing. such a week person you are. it would be one thing to just disappear and hide, but you made up a reason to blame on me rather than just tell the truth about you. i will never forget that.

[redskyatnight]

Hey Midge,

When we face what we fear and survive, we don't fear it as much anymore.

And your ex is a total loser. Making up excuses and blame are tools of people who can't take personal responsibility. The luckiest day of your life was when he broke your heart. He would have continued to demean you and take away your life, one painful cell at a time.

[midge]

redsky,

i know you are so absolutely right. you are. what i don't understand is about myself- i don't understand how i survived my divorce (and came to see it as a blessing in disguise), grew into a person i really liked a lot and never thought i could naturally become, became smarter about myself, the world and my realistic expectations of people and then fell into (and refused to leave) such an unhealthy and destructive relationship. i have always been passive-aggressive, but never before have i allowed someone to take such egregious advantage of me, and i certainly wouldn't have allowed it to continue after what was happening became obvious. but with this guy, i practically begged him to continue to use me up and throw me away. with my divorce, i decided that living well was the best revenge, and i lived that. i became the person i wanted for myself, but what i did with myself and my life is truly what my exhusband never would have believed. how could i simultaneously become the person in the living-well scenario and still think that i was so worthless that this other guy was all i reserved or exactly what i deserved? perhaps i was never that person at all. now is the time to be the person i want to be.

his narcissism is absolutely stupefying to me and my stupidity is equally stupefying to me. for a little while after he told me that my mood swings (they are not moods swings- they are the natural human emotions of a normal person who is manipulated by a sociopathic user) were the destruction of our relationship- i actually apologized to him. i apologized for being too emotional, for being too me and not more something else. while he knew it had everything to do with his lies and his inability to be straight with me, he smugly allowed me to apologize for made-up excuses and being imperfect before i realized that i was manipulated again and it had NOTHING to do with my human emotions. what a piece of shit.

thank you, redsky. he did do me a favor- better late than never.